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Ignition/distributor issues... please help! -UPDATED- (page 5)

mkaenel

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
1,545
Loc.
La Costa, CA
We are having a hell of a time getting this Bronco to fire up. Below are the details and any would be appreciated.

Here is the list of what I have:

1. MSD Ignition 6a 2600
2. Pertronix flame thrower distributor (this was sent back to them for testing and it works fine according to them).
3. All new wires, coil and plugs
4. Centch wiring harness

When the white wire from the ignition box is connected to the black wire from the distributor and the red wire from the distributor is run to the ignition power from the centech it will fire and run... but it runs really poorly and won't stay running. It sounds like the distributor is miss firing and sending mixed orders to the cylinders about what order they should fire in.

The wiring instructions from MSD say to run run the two wires from the distributor to the pigtail on the rear of the box. But when this method is used it gets zero spark and will not start.

Is there a chance that the box is fried and can MSD test this? It has about 15miles on it total.

Thanks for the help.

Matt
 
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mkaenel

mkaenel

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
1,545
Loc.
La Costa, CA
It has a brand new crate engine so as far as running fine before the MSD was installed can't be answered. But with the old engine it ran fine.

Initially when it was fired (with new engine) it ran just fine. But about a week after it was originally fired it all went to hell. Ben (73 stallion) can vouch for that because he was here working on it.

I have not tried it without the box. Will it even fire that way?

Thanks,

Matt


couple questions.
was it running fine before the MSD box?
was the engine just rebuilt and has it run correctly yet?
Have you tried it without the MSD box and just a coil?
This MSD troubleshooting forum may be of some help http://www.msdignition.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8
 
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mkaenel

mkaenel

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
1,545
Loc.
La Costa, CA
so no one has any other ideas on this problem? I am ready to turn this truck into a giant paper weight!

Matt
 

tim70

Full Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
257
Loc.
SF Bay, CA
Do you have another coil you can try? Worth a shot. I've had a new coil turn out bad.
 
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mkaenel

mkaenel

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
1,545
Loc.
La Costa, CA
We looked at the coil... We put a screwdriver in the boot that goes to the coil and while firing it worked great (even when it was about an inch from the coil). It sent a strong spark to the screwdriver.

So I feel that the coil is fine. I am at a loss as to what is wrong. Everything is new and it worked fine about two weeks ago and now there is a problem.

Thanks,

Matt

Do you have another coil you can try? Worth a shot. I've had a new coil turn out bad.
 

tim70

Full Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
257
Loc.
SF Bay, CA
I would do the low voltage check and then look at your fuel pressure/delivery to make sure you don't have a weak pump, then if all is okay, go back to the MSD box. If it would help, I think I have an older 6A box that I could lend you to try.
 
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mkaenel

mkaenel

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
1,545
Loc.
La Costa, CA
The pumps are fine and brand new (I have a mechanical and electric).

Are you running a Pertronix distributor? Because if you are is your MSD box connected to the distributor from the pigtail on the back (as the MSD web site says it should be) or is it running off the wires out of the front?

Thanks for the offer to loan me your MSD box. I will most likely take you up on that.

Matt

I would do the low voltage check and then look at your fuel pressure/delivery to make sure you don't have a weak pump, then if all is okay, go back to the MSD box. If it would help, I think I have an older 6A box that I could lend you to try.
 

tim70

Full Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
257
Loc.
SF Bay, CA
Yes running the pertronix, not running the msd box. I just looked at my setup and its just the coil and pertronix and been running like that for at least 5 years.
 

scotts77

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
945
Loc.
Marietta, GA
I had experience with the MSD 6A boxes and while my setup was a little different (I was using a Pro Billet dist.) I can tell you those things are not worth the headache and if you go over to the Mustang forums they will tell you the same thing. I hope you get it going soon, but I would advise you to keep a spare 6A in the truck with you because the day will come when it will just quit on you. Probably not while it's running, but when you go to start it again for no reason it will have crapped out. Don't ask me how I know ?:?
 
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mkaenel

mkaenel

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
1,545
Loc.
La Costa, CA
So what is an alternative to an MSD box?

Thanks,

Matt

I had experience with the MSD 6A boxes and while my setup was a little different (I was using a Pro Billet dist.) I can tell you those things are not worth the headache and if you go over to the Mustang forums they will tell you the same thing. I hope you get it going soon, but I would advise you to keep a spare 6A in the truck with you because the day will come when it will just quit on you. Probably not while it's running, but when you go to start it again for no reason it will have crapped out. Don't ask me how I know ?:?
 
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mkaenel

mkaenel

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
1,545
Loc.
La Costa, CA
So you aren't running any type of control box at all? I am a little confused.

Yes running the pertronix, not running the msd box. I just looked at my setup and its just the coil and pertronix and been running like that for at least 5 years.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
34,821
We are having a hell of a time getting this Bronco to fire up. Below are the details and any would be appreciated.

Here is the list of what I have:

1. MSD Ignition 6a 2600
2. Pertronix flame thrower distributor (this was sent back to them for testing and it works fine according to them).
3. All new wires, coil and plugs
4. Centch wiring harness

When the white wire from the ignition box is connected to the black wire from the distributor and the red wire from the distributor is run to the ignition power from the centech it will fire and run... but it runs really poorly and won't stay running. It sounds like the distributor is miss firing and sending mixed orders to the cylinders about what order they should fire in.

The wiring instructions from MSD say to run run the two wires from the distributor to the pigtail on the rear of the box. But when this method is used it gets zero spark and will not start.

Is there a chance that the box is fried and can MSD test this? It has about 15miles on it total.

Thanks for the help.

Matt


And a brand new crate engine to boot.
Now my question, do you have the plug wires in the right order?
Many crate engines use the 351 / 5.0 HO firing order instead of the old 302 firing order.
 

tim70

Full Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
257
Loc.
SF Bay, CA
So you aren't running any type of control box at all? I am a little confused.

Not that I can tell. It's set up just like figure 2 on the pertronix installation sheet:

http://www.pertronix.com/support/manuals/pdf/ignitor12vneg.pdf

I changed from points to pertronix about a year or two after I got the truck. Keep in mind that mine is a 70 and did not have an electronic ignition stock.

Does the flame thrower distributor need an electronic ignition box?
 
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mkaenel

mkaenel

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
1,545
Loc.
La Costa, CA
And a brand new crate engine to boot.
Now my question, do you have the plug wires in the right order?
Many crate engines use the 351 / 5.0 HO firing order instead of the old 302 firing order.

Yes thet are in the right order... checked 3 times. We also tried the 351 order and had a nice little explosion... so that way didn't work.

Matt
 
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mkaenel

mkaenel

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
1,545
Loc.
La Costa, CA
Last time Ben was here he had no idea why it didn't work. When he first got here we fired it up and all was fine. So we started on other projects and when we went back to fine tune it, it ran like hell and has ever since.

I spend a lot of time just scratching my head trying to figure it out.

Matt

Matt, send a pm to Ben and see what he recommends since he knows your truck.
 
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mkaenel

mkaenel

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
1,545
Loc.
La Costa, CA
So this will replace the need for an MSD box? Also, the two wires from the distributor go directly to the flame thrower coil.

So then what is the point to running an MSD box in the first place?

Sorry but I amreally confused now.

Thanks,

Matt

only other option to not use the MSD box is to get a coil that matches the pertronix dizzy. you can get a flamethrower coil as cheap as $30, or go for the gusto and get the BIG pertronix dizzy for $65.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PNX-40011&N=700+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PNX-60104&N=700+115&autoview=sku
 
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