Machine work?

capt. bronco · Aug 30, 2008

I know this is region specific but I wanted some opinions. I need to get my block bored .30 over to clean up the cylinder. The machine shop I was talking to wants about $3500.00 to do this work. They will I guess hot tank and clean block, chase all threads, balance assembly, bore out cylinders purchase pistons (hyper) and rings, turn crank, install all new freeze plugs and cam and crank bearings, resize rods assemble motor run on dyno and buy new durasprk dist, buy new double roller chain and oil pump. I am supplying new heads(afr 165) and cam and lifter set. Does this sound high to you? They come very highly recommended by a friend who has 2 very high dollar kr500 with original 428cj engines. They also have to turn the crank. there may be more I am forgetting but it did surprise me when I spent 2500.00 on parts and brought him 1500.00 and he said it would probably be 2000.00 more. when I come pick it up. Thanks, Randy

Viperwolf1 · Aug 30, 2008

Find another machine shop. Those guys are on crack.

broncnaz · Aug 30, 2008

Thats way to much unless they are gold plating it. Its not really region specific but some areas are higher/lower than others. But then again your leaving it to them to buy most of the parts and assemble it. The dyno part is nice but not really needed unless your trying to pull out every last HP out of it. Usually not needed for a bronco and may not actually run the same once installed in a heavy bronco. Probably have to back the timing off.
They should be able to give you a actual price right now It sounds to me there throwing it all on just to see what they can get out of you.

Wyflyer · Aug 30, 2008

Are you saying you spent 2500 on parts, supplied your own "ready to run" heads, and this will still cost 3500 dollars?
This sounds very high to me. In my short stint with a commercial engine shop, we turned out around 300 engines a year, mostly Chevrolet which overhaul cheaper than Fords. Still, they averaged about 2200 per rebuild. It included everything you described except for dyno and balance (200.00) and INCLUDED headwork and cam and lifters.
The rings, bearings, freeze plugs, and gaskets can all be bought in an overhaul kit for around 300 dollars or less. You dont' say what type engine are you rebuilding? Small block big block?
You are basically buying the labor and parts for a short block rebuild, plus assembly with your heads and then test run on the dyno.

thegreatjustino · Aug 31, 2008

I had the 289 from my classic Mustang rebuilt earlier this year. For a complete rebuild including what you listed (minus the dyno and distributor), plus rebuilding my harmonic balancer, a new flexplate, and a set of replacement stock heads ran me $2,200 from the most reputable shop in town.

If you are supplying the new heads, cam, and lifter set, $3,500 is highway robbery. With the parts you are supplying, you should be looking at a $1,500 to $1,800 machine shop cost IMHO.

bronco italiano · Aug 31, 2008

I went to one of the finest machine shops in CA (B & R machine) that has been run by the same 2 guys (yes they do the machine work/assembly themselves) for over 35 years. They charged me :
400.00 for assembly only
the rest of the money (about 4.5k) was in machine work/new edelbrock heads
I got forged pistons (if your willing to pay for hyper then get forged) and the roller cam kit (comp cams) with roller rockers was 1300 add the heads at 1000 and then I have misc parts/machine work at 2200. I did supply the crank/block/rods upper/lwr intake. Bottom line is:
The more experience a craftsman has... the more money he can get for his work. I look for reputation/how many years at same location/referneces/cleanliness of shop. The guys at B & R aren't the most personable, but I'm looking for a motor builder not a pen pal.
Your quote does seem high, I would get a breakdown on the machine shop work costs/parts cost. Better parts cost more and I would be weary of a shop recommending hyper when forged isn't much more money and they can run much closer tolerances so they aren't so noisy anymore. Good Luck, BI

bigmuddy · Aug 31, 2008

I would agree that it's too high as well. I would disagree with bronco italiano as far as the forged/hyper comment. My experience is that most use hyper, 1: because they are cheaper and 2: because you will experience less problems with getting the rings to seal properly both in the break in and later when the engine starts to wear with higher mileage (daily driver)

Forged pistons are great if you are going to a blower/turbo setup as they are much more durable in those applications.

my .02
Ben

needabronco · Aug 31, 2008

Your basically getting a built shortblock ($800-1200 IMO) and they are bolting on your supplied heads. I'd find another shop.

SBF cranks rarely need to be turned which is a red flag to me about your shop. If you have a crank that is so hammered it needs to be turned you need a new crank! Also rods are the same. They do at times need to be straightened, but that usually takes a few minutes and is included in the cost of hanging the pistons. I would suggest hyperutectic pistons as they are quieter than forged and cheaper(forged requires more piston/cylinder wall clearance and tend to chatter when cold). Unless your running nitrous or a turbo/supercharger you don't need them. Yes I do know that 5.0's do come factory with forged.

Here's what my machine shop charged me (from memory)

Machine block .030" included fitting hyperutectic pistons and rings. $120, $80 for boring $40 for fitting the rings.

Polish crank $40

Hang pistons, included straightening one rod $80

Rebuild heads (completely new everything) $240

Granted my guy was a semi retired machine shop guy, but he did amazing work.

My brother in law had another machine shop build him a 5.0 long block for $1800. He included his built 289 heads and the shop supplied everything else. Everything was balanced, and ran great...

Just a couple of examples of cheaper builds.

rjlougee · Aug 31, 2008

I'd say that's crazy!!

I just purchased a 408 stroker, on a roller 351W block, assembled with AFR heads, Crane roller rockers, etc... and it was $4200 delivered to my local shipping dock.

About all it needs is intake, timing chain cover, water pump, induction and oil pan/pump.
Joe

bronco italiano · Aug 31, 2008

Big muddy I'll double check with my shop on the hyper vs. forged. If I recall correctly, as I initially requested hyper pistons due to the "cold clacking" and not running a blower, my shop stated that the new silicon alloys allowed you to run much tighter clearances than previous forged pistons and it really wasn't much more cost wise. Besides CA gas is terrible and brutal on the life of our motors. When I get home from work I'll check and see what the cost breakdown was and post it. BI

capt. bronco · Aug 31, 2008

Thanks for all the input. I did talk to him today and he said the figuring he did the other night was wrong. It should be only 1000.00 more to finish so a total of 2500.00 total that includes dyno time. I'm alright with that. He did not Itemize the job he was just going off top of his head. He is itemizing everything for me now. Thanks, Randy

broncnaz · Aug 31, 2008

That sounds a little better. I'd try to get something in writing or at least look at there pricing for machine work and assembly.

I think only the hyper pistons have higher content silicon in them than the forged ones do. Hyper's get tighter clearances than forged and are almost as strong as forged there was some problems with the early hypers having either to much or too little silicon and they had some breakage problems but they are much better now. 5.0s also came with hypers I believe the forged were only used a couple of years on HO's. But I'm not positive on that.

Bronco73 · Aug 31, 2008

Make sure you get a break down of what the shop is doing and post it here. You need to make sure he doesn't leave anything out and then try to say well this part ended up needing work and your qoute didn't cover that. He could jack the price up real quick. Better to be safe than sorry which it sounds like your doing that already.

1 old 67 · Aug 31, 2008

sounds too high when u can buy one for that?

Viperwolf1 · Aug 31, 2008

broncnaz said:
That sounds a little better. I'd try to get something in writing or at least look at there pricing for machine work and assembly.

I think only the hyper pistons have higher content silicon in them than the forged ones do. Hyper's get tighter clearances than forged and are almost as strong as forged there was some problems with the early hypers having either to much or too little silicon and they had some breakage problems but they are much better now. 5.0s also came with hypers I believe the forged were only used a couple of years on HO's. But I'm not positive on that.

Ford used TRW forged pistons in the 89-92 HO motors.

needabronco · Aug 31, 2008

My 96' Explorer 5.0 Also had TRW forged pistons in it. Every 5.0 I've taken apart has for that matter....

bigmuddy · Sep 1, 2008

broncoitaliano, I didn't catch that they were a newer design. I was going off of older information that I had learned when I rebuilt an 89 50 HO about five years ago. So no doubt things may have changed?

broncnaz I understood the same thing and have read that same thing in several books on the 5.0 HO. Personally the last few 5.0 HO I have broke down didn't have forged pistons in them. I have a 97 explorer 5.0 in the shop and will eventually break it down for a buddy and I will check and see if it has the forged pistons in it?

Interesting!

Ben

Tuck · Sep 1, 2008

Good to hear the price went down. I can't make up my mind on the engine choice for my 73, but I called a shop here & a 351 with a mild build was going to run around $3k. That's with them supplying everything including the block & heads. Thinking now about just running an EFI 5.0.

smoktf250 · Sep 2, 2008

I spent 600 on my block
Hot tank dipped/cleaned
bore .30 over
honed
girdled
decked
cam bearings in and out

ArmyCOL · Sep 2, 2008

Randy,

I found a shop in Orlando that will go through my '92 5.0 from top to bottom, clean and paint for $1600. I did not ask about boring the cylinders as I am not interested id doing that to the motor I have.

Chuck

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