9" crush sleve install

73stallion · Sep 18, 2009

getting ready to swap out the rear end in my bronco, and the new (to me)one has a pinion seal leak. i'm nervous about replacing te seal and over tightening the pinion nut, so i want to do it by the book. question is how hard is it to replace the crush sleve? do you just pull out the front bearing and it's right there? any special way to reinstall it, or just torque to spec?

bigjhoov · Sep 18, 2009

I thought you were the Bronco mechanic? Ditch the crush sleeve and go with the crush sleeve eliminator, much better.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/9-Fo...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

broncnaz · Sep 18, 2009

Yep crush sleeve is right behind the front bearing. You supposed to find out how much torque it takes to turn the yoke ie preload reading. then replace the crush sleeve and tighten the pinion nut until you get the same preload reading as you had before.
But basically the pinion preload should be between 12-32 in lbs.( this is with the pinion removed from the carrier). tighten the pinion nut to 175 ft lbs then take a preload reading if not enough torque it a little more until you get in the range.

I like the solid spacers also but crush sleeves are readily availible.

bax · Sep 19, 2009

You have to take the pinion support out anyway so it's just as easy to set up a solid spacer. After that oil seal replacements are a snap.

Bronco73 · Sep 19, 2009

If you have a 3.5 gear ratio make sure you put the pinion in the way it came out to keep the proper wear pattern on the gears. Some times there are marks already on the pinion and ring gear from the factory. A 4.11 gear would not have to be lined back up because the pattern from the pinion gear will over lap it's self on the ring gear.

broncnaz · Sep 19, 2009

I've never heard of that. While it couldnt hurt its hardly worth the effort when all your doing is replacing a crush sleeve. All in all it shouldnt make one bit of differance if the ring gear is true. Even if its not it will wear back in shortly. All your doing is replacing a crush sleeve it has very little to do with backlash in the gearing. I've done it several times on 3.50 gears and never lined it up or anything and its never been a issue.

Bronco73 · Sep 19, 2009

I have done it as well with out installing it back in correctly but it was explained to me by the best 9 inch axle builder in Ohio and for the life of me I can not recall his exact words. It has to do with the number of turns the pinion makes on the ring gear to get one full turn and a 3.50 gear set the pinion runs in the exact same spot on every rotation, never over lapping its self. If I recall this appies to all eeven numbered ratio's?

Once a wear pattern is set, it does not reset it's self. If you change the wear pattern on used gears the gears will more than likely whine on either the coast side or drive side depending on how they are set up and this noise will never go away.

broncnaz · Sep 19, 2009

The wear pattern will reset itself it has no choice if you have changed something. although you should make sure backlash is within specs. All in all if the gear set is true which it should be it will have little to no effect on gear pattern. The noise is from to much wear and can be taken away with the proper backlash. I've reused gear sets that I didnt pull and would have no idea how they were setup and have yet to have one whine. Of course its not like I've done so many that I'm a expert maybe I've just been lucky.

73stallion · Sep 19, 2009

think i'm just gonna do the crush sleve, thanks everybody. it's a 4.11 BTW. and there's always something we haven't tackled!

Tito · Sep 19, 2009

Now ignorant or not, I have never messed with replacing the crush sleeve when replacing the yoke or seal, I have always just snugged it up with an impact. I have never had any excess wear on any of the rear ends that I have done this with. What part will wear/potentially get damaged by not checking this spec?

Bronco73 · Sep 19, 2009

If the pinion bearings are to tight then the bearings will fail. If they are to loose you will ruin the pinion, ring gear and bearings. There's a lot one can get away with. It just depends how how long it will last which is based on how well it was put together.

I have set up many used gears before I was ever told about the 3.50 pinion thing and I agree I never had a problem or I never heard of a problem from the people that bought the gears from me. Once I was told that the even ratios should be put back the way they came apart I figured it was better to practice that method than just ignoring it.

A wear pattern is set by setting the pinion depth and backlash. Once that is set it does not change, it shouldn't or something moved.

rjrobin2002 · Sep 19, 2009

I am with you Tito, I always just snug it back down and try to count the threads that were showing before I removed it and make it have the same threads showing after reinstalling it. I have not had a failure in the 5 yrs I have been Broncoing. I do agree that this is not the proper way to do this though and I have plans of changing my gears eventually. A failure would not hurt my feelings too bad cause it would make me change my gears and my wife would be more willing to let me order some gears and traction devices if it was broke down. I would use the recommended way once I rebuild though. I just need my gears to make it for 1 more week so i can get to OCBR and back home.

Steve · Sep 19, 2009

There is no reason to replace the crush sleeve to replace the seal. Mark the pinion nut and pinion somehow, take the pinion nut off counting the number of turns it takes to get it off. Remove the yoke. Remove and replace the seal. Put the yoke back on after cleaning the sealing surface. Put the pinion nut back on counting the same number of turns and line up the marks you made earlier. You're done.

There's no reason to do any more than that to replace the seal on a 9" or just about any other axle.

Tito · Sep 19, 2009

Steve said:
There is no reason to replace the crush sleeve to replace the seal. Mark the pinion nut and pinion somehow, take the pinion nut off counting the number of turns it takes to get it off. Remove the yoke. Remove and replace the seal. Put the yoke back on after cleaning the sealing surface. Put the pinion nut back on counting the same number of turns and line up the marks you made earlier. You're done.

There's no reason to do any more than that to replace the seal on a 9" or just about any other axle.

I will remember that next time.

bax · Sep 19, 2009

You do it what ever way you want. Counting threads or snugging it up the same amount. who knows if it was right the first time/ who knows if bearing wear is an issue? fact is your supposed to take it out and check it, install a new sleeve, use a new nut.
Forget all that! just impact it off change the seal and impact it back on. I wonder why the seal went bad?

Steve · Sep 19, 2009

bax said:
...fact is your supposed to take it out and check it, install a new sleeve...

It's a "fact" why, exactly, and who says it's a fact??? ?:?

If you replace the crush sleeve the only way to do it right is to remove the pinion carrier and, using a good dial indicating in-lb torque wrench - which most people don't own and which is very expensive to buy - crush the new sleeve (MUCH easier said than done) so the pinion preload is correct. I've replaced several pinion seals on various axles the way I said earlier and have never had any kind of problem.

bushman · Sep 19, 2009

I have set up a lot of rear ends, and I can tell you that even with the same bearings, yoke and the old crush sleeve...sometimes the old sleeve won't provide tension the second time around. This lets the pinion loosen up and frags the bearings. By the way, the sleeve doesn't actually set the preload, it just puts tension between the bearings to keep everything snug.

73stallion · Sep 19, 2009

bax said:
I wonder why the seal went bad?

that same thought crossed my mind, i'll just find out when i get in there.

broncnaz · Sep 19, 2009

Steve said:
It's a "fact" why, exactly, and who says it's a fact??? ?:?

If you replace the crush sleeve the only way to do it right is to remove the pinion carrier and, using a good dial indicating in-lb torque wrench - which most people don't own and which is very expensive to buy - crush the new sleeve (MUCH easier said than done) so the pinion preload is correct. I've replaced several pinion seals on various axles the way I said earlier and have never had any kind of problem.

Every factory Ford repair manual. I would think they would have it right since they designed the axle.
Most dial indicating torque wrenches are cheaper than standard ones. But I digess I've also changed many a seal and even reused crush sleeves But that was on my own vehicle would you want someone just guessing when your paying for it? I'm sure 73stallion takes a little pride in his work and would like repeat customers not unhappy ones.

Ive rarely seen seals go bad due to loose bearings more than likely it was just dirt/wear or maybe even just 32+ years finally took there toll. Might even need a new yoke or speedy sleeve for the yoke due to wear.

Steve · Sep 20, 2009

broncnaz said:
Every factory Ford repair manual. I would think they would have it right since they designed the axle.
Most dial indicating torque wrenches are cheaper than standard ones. But I digess I've also changed many a seal and even reused crush sleeves But that was on my own vehicle would you want someone just guessing when your paying for it? I'm sure 73stallion takes a little pride in his work and would like repeat customers not unhappy ones.

I thought this thread and question was from someone wanting to replace his own seal, not from a shop. Two very different questions.

broncnaz said:
Ive rarely seen seals go bad due to loose bearings more than likely it was just dirt/wear or maybe even just 32+ years finally took there toll. Might even need a new yoke or speedy sleeve for the yoke due to wear.

I agree completely. That's why I've always just replaced the seal and have never had a problem.

9" crush sleve install

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