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cam experts?

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
I'm putting together my 302 end have been told by folks both on this site and the one of the big mustang sites that I should get the cam experts to suggest a cam for my application. Now after sending duplicates of my specs and wants to four major manufacturer tech lines, three have responded with grinds that are way off from each other. I mean lifts, durations, and overlaps that are soooooo far from each other! I give up. I'll pick my own!
 

73azbronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
7,805
Well done.

I recommend going to comp cams and dowloading their camquest software to help determine which cam you need. Even if you don't buy from them, you get an idea what specs are out there.

As an asside, I heard great things about camshaft innovations in Colorado. After taking the time to submit my request, I recieved two emails stating that sorry, we are busy, we'll get to you. That was over a month ago. I bought a Comp cam.
 

broncnaz

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
24,341
Every cam company has there own way to grind cams different overlaps will require different durations and lifts ect. Thats one reason they will be different. As one company may rely on high lift numbers the other company high duration numbers ect. The main reason to get the recommendations is to compare each cam so you can take your pick
Hopefully they also have good spec cards which can tell you what compression is needed idle quality, cruise rpm power range ect. Thats where you really need to pull the info from
 

73azbronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
7,805
thats because like broncaz said, they approach it differently. Some get higher lift at different times which could act just like a lower lift sequanced at different times. it all depends...
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,486
...None are anywhere close to the same.?:?

Can you define "close" for us? What were the specs?
I'm just curious to see what they all sent you. Be kind of an interesting comparison to see what each had to say.

Thanks

Paul
 

VT_Don

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2001
Messages
365
The point of contact buffoons you are dealing with are in sales. Folks in engineering can't afford to waste time with retail customers. Just the way it is.

I recently spoke with a Comp Cams sales person at their booth, at the PRI show. I can't recall meeting a more clueless idiot in all my years of manufacturing business. Sad fact is, he and his ilks probably just sit at a desk all day issuing RAs, sending out catalogs, and drive to work in a leased Prius.

If unfamiliar with cam designs, best to work with an "engine builder." Note, I didn't say, "engine assembler." There is a HUGE distinction regarding highly successful engine builders, and you neighborhood goober that just installs random parts.

In another lifetime, I had the rare opportunity to spend time in cam shops mentored by the like of Don Tewls of General Kinetics. These men were profound engineers. They generated thousands of hours of research thru empirical experience upon which modern computer programs are now based. Was exciting to see the hundreds of lobe masters and chose what profile to grind on a small block Ford cam blank with a Landis grinder. Today they're infinite profiles available generated by CNC programs.
 
OP
OP
blubuckaroo

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
Crane Part Number: 13005 Grind Number: 272 H10
Engine Size Configuration
221-302 C.I. V
Valve Setting: Intake .000 Exhaust .000 HOT
Lift: Intake @Cam 3027 @Valve 484 All Lifts are based
on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios.
Exhaust @ Cam 3027 @Valve 484
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.60
Cam Timing: TAPPET @.004
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 27 BTDC 65 ABDC 272 °
Exhaust 67 BBDC 25 ATDC 272 °


***************************************
ISKY
.480/.480 Lift - 214°/214° @ .050
Fits: 221ci - 260ci - 289ci - 302ci
• 264°/264° Adv. Dur.
• 108° Lobe Center
• RPM Range: 2000 - 5800
• Tremendous Torque
• 9.5 to 10:1 Compression
• Good Idle
• 3.20 - 3.70 Axle Ratio
• Good Mid-Range Power
• Stock Converter
• Up to 625 CFM carb.

**********************************************

Comp Cams XE262H
Manufacturer's Part Number 31-238-3
Product Line COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Camshafts
Basic Operating RPM Range 1,300-5,600
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 218
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 224
Duration at 050 inch Lift 218 int./224 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration 262
Advertised Exhaust Duration 270
Advertised Duration 262 int./270 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.493 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.500 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.493 int./0.500 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees) 110
Intake Valve Lash 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash 0.000 in.
Grind Number FS XE262H-10

So then if I need to ask for advice I guess this is just as food a place as any to start:
 

Broncoholic1

Sr. Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
405
Go with the Comp XE262H
Has a better profile for street & off road.

It will sound a little meaner too..
 

broncnaz

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
24,341
I dont see any huge differances. I would say the isky is a bit smaller than the other 2 and the crane is biggest.

I can tell you about the crane cam I've run 3 different ones and one similar to the 272 they suggested.
The 272 is good if you plan on running 2600-3000 rpm on the hiway and still has good low end. You should have 9-1 -10-1 comp ratio.
I'm currently running the H266-2. Good idle good lowend and a cruise range of 2200-2700.
I want to go back to the H272-2 one of these days but I need more compression for it.
I'm not real sure anymore but through my readings most builders always suggested a dual duration cam(different intake and exhuast durations) for small fords. Due to the poor exhuast ports on SBF's. Many of the cams with single grinds were just based on ch#vy grinds. Which can show little actual development for the SBF by that company.
Overall I'd say they all gave you there best suggestions for your setup.
 

TDubya

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
381
Loc.
Fortuna, CA
Would the advantages of a dual duration cam for a SBF be lessened by better flowing aftermarket heads?
 

broncnaz

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
24,341
It probably would be but I'm not expert on this. I have better flowing heads and a dual duration cam. I've never ran a single duration cam. So even then it would be hard to compare as the profiles are usuaulyl a little different. its only been fairly recently that there have been a lot of single duration cams out for fords. I think its more due to less design research these companies do on fords so they just use there ch#vy profiles. But again I'm not a expert and really the cams do prety much the same thing. If they were finding better results with better flowing heads I would think they would state that. Might be a good question for the cam companies.
 

73azbronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
7,805
all of those appear to have LSA to close for use with EFI MAF, from what I've read, if you where to consider going that way later.
 

rcmbronc

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
Messages
2,696
Loc.
Tomah WI
I know that one should match the cam exactly to the vehicle, but I have had good luck with Comp Cams Xtreme 4x4 cams in my Bronco. Works with EFI well.
 

TDubya

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
381
Loc.
Fortuna, CA
When I installed my current cam (Crane H260-2) 15 years ago, I had 3.50 gears and 31" tires and cruised down the freeway at 2400 rpm. I have since swithced to 4.11 gears and 33" tires and turn 2700 rpms. Had I known about the future changes to gearing I would have gone w/ a little bigger cam, i.e. Crane H266-2 or Comp XE262H. My current combo seems to work well, but Crane may have recommended something different. Just something to think about.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,486
Last time we had a custom cam ground for one of our cars, at a local shop (way too many years ago to say), it was literally only a few dollars more than an off-the-shelf cam.
I think it cost something like $100, but that was when a standard cam was only about $85 too, so it's not a good comparo perhaps.
A 15% premium was well worth it though. It was definitely one of the best cams we ever ran!
Isn't Voodoo Cams a custom grinder with some Ford expertise? Maybe another brand I'm thinking of, but they're out there. Just gotta look.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,486
...I recently spoke with a Comp Cams sales person at their booth, at the PRI show. I can't recall meeting a more clueless idiot in all my years of manufacturing business. Sad fact is, he and his ilks probably just sit at a desk all day issuing RAs, sending out catalogs, and drive to work in a leased Prius...

It might even have been worse than that Don. He may not even have worked for Comp.
He might just have been the RA guy you mentioned, but as you probably know too, at shows like PRI and SEMA and many other smaller shows, although they may pull someone from the factory to help, they leave most of them back home to do the real work and use a lot of their outside field-sales representatives to man the booths.
Don't know about Comp at PRI specifically, but many of those people are independents and represent several different companies (up to 30 or 40 sometimes). Suffice it to say that knowledge of any specific product is spread pretty thin in those cases.
Biggest problem I see is that many (most?) of them are not even "car guys" and are not that familiar with things like cams. Much less technical specifics regarding the companies and products they "represent".
I know. Before, I couldn't even spell "Sells Injinere". Now I are one.

Sad, but true. And, as you say, it's just the way it is.

Paul

PS: Luckily though, it's not always the case. An old co-worker of mine was the independent rep for Comp in Washington state a few years ago. Now he WAS a car guy! And a cam expert as well. He could quote part numbers and special notes and new what to recommend and when. He also even knew when a part was on the shelf or had to be ordered.
Don't know if he still works for them, but it sounds like he'd have been an asset in the PRI booth!
 
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