Best of both worlds suspenision??? need your 2 cents!!!

Just the most basic of bronco topics, long travel bronco style suspensision.
No coil over ideas, Just 50% street / 50% rock duties. Looking for opinions that know the john bull run or rubicon or moab, going to buy soon;D

Boy did you just open up a can-o-worms. Hah!
But just to start things off (oh, and hi by the way, and welcome!), I have a simple 3.5" suspension setup and have done the Rubicon many times over a thirty five year period. Never done the John Bull, but would love to sometime.
My setup is variable-ratefront coils from Wild Horses and (now) a set of 2.5" Skyjacker rear springs with 1" blocks. Previously, I'd run stock, stock with add-a-leaf, 3.5" Tom's Bronco (basic stiff version) and then 3.5" Superlift leaves.

Although I'm by no means anywhere near the setups that 75% of the members here are, it has worked well for me as a daily-driver (not lately though :-[ ) with a smooth-ish ride, very decent handling characteristics and reasonably satisfactory off road manners.

There. Hope that helps get your long search started.

Have fun!

Paul

Oh, and if you aren't familiar with forums and haven't tried the search function yet, give it a shot. The drop-down menu button up at the top right of the page can also get you started while you're waiting for some more answers.

Paul

I'd recommend talking to the vendors and asking them their opinions. They all have variations of lifts. Not just height but spring rate and so on.
I have not personally run either of the runs you mentioned but have run plenty technical trails in so. cal. and have a JD 3.5" lift with Bilstein 7100 shocks and a 1" body lift. This keeps the center of gravity relatively low. I run 33" tires but plan to move towards 35's. Extended radius arms will give better flex in the front.

DirtDonk said:

Boy did you just open up a can-o-worms.

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Truth.

I ran almost everything in Moab with 3.5" lift rear leafs and 3.5" variable rate coils with a wristed radius arm. To get any kind of decent flex from the front radius arm suspension you will absolutely need either a wristed arm or long arms. Lockers in both axles can make up for a lack of suspension flex in a lot of cases.

Max tire i'll ever run is 36"-38", my rookie thoughts where 5.5 lift but seems like33-35 are good on a 3.5 lift, i'll look in to the wristed or longer R arms which is better for 50/50 driving? maybe that 4.5 lift will work on 38"s all comments are welcome thanks for posting

any body damage on 33"s in moab or rubicon?

Ok now, the genie comes out of the bottle and your future plans are revealed! hah!
You realy are probably getting into a can-o-worms, even farther than you might expect. And I don't mean in a brand-vs-brand way now.
Don't ever think that a 5.5" lift, body-lift and all the suspension/steering mods those entail, and 38" tires to be a modest street-friendly driver.
Sure, lots of the members here do it and are happy with the results. But you better be sure what you will accept and be happy with.

At the 36 to 38" level, you're delving right down into that area where everything you do will revolve around "upgrades".
Upgrade to better drivetrain parts. Then to BIGGER drivetrain parts. More power parts. Larger gas tanks of course! More power again. More steering and axle upgrades (again!), if you decide you want to do those trails you talked about very often. And still more stuff to make it more fun on the street. Or to at least try to bring back some of the fun you remembered you were having on the street when you first bought it!

Do I sound negative? Ok, just a bit, but like I said, many many people doing just what you are contemplating and are quite happy. But I bet you hear from some, and if you do a search you'll find even more, that will talk all day about the other related modifications they had to do to make it all work together and still have a good, streetable rig that their families would ride in.

Happy reading.

Paul

Thomas H. said:

any body damage on 33"s in moab or rubicon?

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Maybe.
Possibly.
Depends.

Hah! Not quite an answer, but it's true. A lot depends on the driver, a willing and able spotter, willingness to use the go-rounds rather than the go-through-rocker-masher routes.
And even a bit of luck.

We had 4 Broncos over the Rubicon on 5 different occasions with almost no body damage on 32" tires or smaller.
I say "almost" becaue there were a couple of boo-boos that were due to lack of attention rather than difficulty.
Moab is so full of easy and hard (to nearly impossible) trails, that yes, it's super easy to find 33" friendly trails.

The trail is much harder now than back then though, but with 33's I stand by my first paragraph.
Depends.

But it's beautiful and fun and a great thing to say you've done. So go for it.

Paul

Thomas H. said:

any body damage on 33"s in moab or rubicon?

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Some trails in Moab would be impossible on 33" tires. Some trails in Moab are likely to result in body damage regardless of tire size.

I agree with a lot of what DirtDonk said. Once you get to 36", and especially 38" tires, you are getting pretty extreme and will have to upgrade lots of other things or you'll be constantly breaking stuff. Once you get to that point it won't be a very good daily driver.

I have been to Moab once, with company cars. Bone stock Rubicon, FJ, Xterra all with the off-road package and nothing else done to them. Still had street pressures in the tires. They all made it with no body damage and a bit of scraping the bottom side. If you take the right trails then you don't need much more then a set of fresh sticky tires.

Since everyone else is concentrating on the trail side of your 50/50 rig I will take on the street side (and a little trail as well).
3½" lift and 33's are a great combo. The stock wheelwells are just large enough that you can really stuff a 33" in there. If you concentrate on being able to stuff a tire instead of building a scafold to get above them the center of gravity will stay lower. This helps both on and off road.
Set of soft springs all around (any of the venders will be able to set you up, they are all comparable, contact a few). Properly sized shocks in the stock mounts will work very well. You may not get the limit of travel, but you wanted a half street truck as well. There were rigs that had a bunch of aftermarket suspension stuff done that flexed no better then what mine could do.
Torque arm. Soft springs, steep climbs, sticky tires, a torque arm will do wonders. I highly recomend a single arm with some sort of floating front anchor. I did a write up a year or so ago on how to do one with an old front radius arm. There are a few others you can buy, Duff torque tamer comes to mind. I do NOT recomend any of the torque control gimicks that use a for/aft push/pull rod. I don't like how it imposes stresses into the leaf packs.

Finally, have at least one locker. that way when you do lift a tire, the other can keep you moving.

Now moving to a 36-38" tire is a completely different relm. You will be doing more then simple bolt on parts to really make this work well unless all you want is a mall crawler.

If I were to design a basic 50/50 suspension setup, that gives both good road manors, and off road ability would be something like this. 35 inch tires-
3.5 inch springs, front shock hoops, long travel Bilsteins on each corner, a set of extended radius arms, and a 1-2 inch body lift.

Then if money permitts, a rear traction bar, better rear shock mounts, sterring upgrades

When you go over a 3.5 inch suspension lift, you start getting into issues of driveablitity on the street, especially castor issues in the front end. If you are building a rig that is say 70 percent or more off road use, then thats when I would start thinking of larger than 35 inch tires, and taller suspension lifts, or more radical fender cutting and trimming

Once you get to that point it won't be a very good daily driver.

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^what he said.

My bronco is on 37's 5.5 w/3 inch body. Beadlocks, 4.56, and detroits arent very street friendly. Do i drive it daily?-yes Is it a "daily driver"?-no. One thing i have found is because i drive it so often on the street im able to work out the kinks and stuff with its driveability. I would say a reasonable lift would be 3.5 w/long arms and 1-2 inch body lift. I just realized the post before mine is basically what im saying. I agree with DonsBolt completly. The main problem i see with driving something like mine or similar on the street is you wear out expensive parts pretty quick. For instance tires- 4 new 37 inch tires are about 1 grand for me but 4 new 35s are muuch cheaper and you can actually balance them. stuff like steering joints, steering box, steering column, u joints, and a million bushings are always wearing out. Carefully consider what you want in your truck then do some research, maybe try to talk some members here into a ride in their trucks so you have something to compare with. Joe

Boy do I love learning from other mistakes/experiences, as fas as parts go it sound like getting to know the vendors & telling them my style 50/50 33'-35' and 3.5 lift. also sounds like great shocks properly mounted, them maybe traction controll like wah, wristed arms and some extra leaf spring control for binding. i'll reread all posts, love the in puts so far and will look forward for more ideas. This rig may go to copper canyon and other expedition style and lite rock crawling trips.;D thanks

X upteen on the suggestions posted above...

My 74 morphed from 31 in tires to a 3.5 lift with 33's open/open. Never broke anything of any consequence when wheeling, THEN....

The body lift, 37in tires and lockers came(along with a regear)

Broke a stock axle shaft and took out the detroit. Upgraded to 35 spline cromos, new locker and 3rd member

Broke a stock front axle shaft then upgraded to cromos

Broke a t-case rear output shaft

Some u-joints here and there.

Streetabilty suffered as well as gas milage. Not to mention the near hernia when rotating 37in tires

Got a 72 that I'm now building....33 inch tires max is the plan as I want something that doesn't beat me to death when driving. Even drive it to the trails and back instead of doing the traler thing when I go wheeling

this is great to read along as Im building and deciding on the 35" tire or 33" build.. makes me want to keep the 2.5 sl and 33" as i dont want a uncomfortable on road ride. keeps me "grounded"i guess -(pun intended...)