View Full Version : Dan Wheeler's C-Bushing Mystery Thread


DanWheeler
05/04/10, 07:11 PM
Searched around a bit but couldn't find anything. Have any of you guys tried loosening up the bolts on the C-bushing caps?

I thought I saw a picture once where somebody created some simple spacers to go between the radius arms and the caps that would give the bushings a little more room to move.

Obviously you wouldn't want to just loosen the bolts up because that would put unwanted stresses on the bolts and threads but a spacer seems like it would work. Maybe 1/4" or less?

anyone done this?

I just need something to get me through this summer. I have extended radius arms but they dont work worth a darn. I dont think I drive the Bronco enough to loosen up those new C-bushings. They are about 3 years old with only a few thousand miles on them if that.

jpopsbronco
05/04/10, 07:47 PM
I think if you just get offroad and do some good articulating, that should help em loosen up/seat fully. maybe pull off the caps and grease the bushings up with some white lithium grease.

DanWheeler
05/04/10, 08:38 PM
Live from Dan's garage - hourly updates... I'm just gonna give it a try.

Here's my baseline:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1344/857313378_yYjqk-M.jpg

passenger side:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1345/857312428_djVQg-M.jpg

drivers side:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1347/857312892_trB2z-M.jpg


oooooh, 2 and a half inches of stuff. I could convert my front fender into an uncut. Reverse LUBR?

watch as this axle magically floats with absolutely nothing below it:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1357/857311878_tTdkJ-M.jpg

Possible explanations for this phenomenon include:
1. Dark matter
2. Voodoo Magic
3. C-Bushings

nrramse
05/04/10, 08:43 PM
I may not be understanding, but I don't think its a good idea to loosen the C-bushings. If that axle shifts around, especially at high speeds, it could get dangerous.

Newell

DanWheeler
05/04/10, 08:48 PM
I may not be understanding, but I don't think its a good idea to loosen the C-bushings. If that axle shifts around, especially at high speeds, it could get dangerous.

Newell

you're thinking is correct.

The question is - how much is OK? (if any)

thats what I intend to find out if I dont kill myself first.

someone's gotta do it.

TN1776
05/04/10, 09:07 PM
Do not loosen any bolts on suspension components!
Best case you'll start breaking u-joints when the axle wraps up. Worst case, your loose axle develops severe death wobble and you end up in a ditch.

You will never be able to measure bump and droop travel using a jack in your garage. Mine behaves a lot like yours when flexing on a floor jack. Take it off road somewhere and put one corner up on a rock or dirt pile - that is where you'll see your true bump and droop travel.

Broncobowsher
05/04/10, 09:19 PM
Live from Dan's garage - hourly updates... I'm just gonna give it a try.

Here's my baseline:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1344/857313378_yYjqk-M.jpg

passenger side:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1345/857312428_djVQg-M.jpg

drivers side:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1347/857312892_trB2z-M.jpg


oooooh, 2 and a half inches of stuff. I could convert my front fender into an uncut. Reverse LUBR?

watch as this axle magically floats with absolutely nothing below it:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1357/857311878_tTdkJ-M.jpg

Possible explanations for this phenomenon include:
1. Dark matter
2. Voodoo Magic
3. C-Bushings

I vote #2;D

I would worry about loosening the caps because it would allow for a signifient loss of caster during braking (due to torque).

I have always understood the front axle and radius arms acted like a giant sway bar. Generally good for driving faster then allowed in school zones. But we have known for years that it isn't the greatest for articulating off-road. We have had cures ranging from wristed radius arms, wristed axle housings and the big one recently is long arms. The wristed stuff simply puts hinges in the system. The longer arms work a little different. You still have a sway bar affect but the properties of that arm are much different now. You can get more inches of travel per degree of rotation. You have longer arm trying to torque the axle housing but like using a longer cheater bar on that stuck nut you have to put in more travel but less effort.
Another option not generally looked at is to pinch the frame side of the radius arms together. The more they are pinched the less of a radius arm affect they would have. The ultimate version of this is the mono-arm with a single piviot point. I remember seeing some people tried this before (of Pirate? with not so great reuslts as ALL of the force was placed on a single piviot point, reminds me of all front axle torque through one arm with a wristed arm). Anyway I see potential to vary the sway bar affect by managing the pinch of the radius arm mounts. I can also see potential of straight long arms (tire clearance without the weak point bend that can and has folded)

Pokey71
05/04/10, 09:20 PM
easy/ cheap fix.

Wristed arm.

I know someone on this site must have one that you can buy for not a whole lot of money.

DanWheeler
05/04/10, 09:34 PM
Dont worry guys - I know what I'm doing.

Wristed arm - very good flex until you spin your axle tubes.

I've measured flex on plenty of stumps out in the woods. It's the same story.

I disagree that measuring flex in a garage with a jack is not valid. It either flexes or it doesnt. Chirping birds, fresh soil and flowing streams doesn't make it flex any better.

Anyway, I dont want to get into an argument about radius arms - been there done that. Just wanted to know if anyone had done this already and had actually evidence of failure or success.

The bushings and I had a little talk:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1387/857376993_3Ykzb-M.jpg

Halfway through the interrogation, I brought out a bottle of lube:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1389/857376599_wU5B9-M.jpg

They say they may be willing to work with the authorities now:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1388/857377549_qVPP5-M.jpg

provided, they are given a little extra freedom of movement:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1391/857378108_5tyVW-M.jpg

I'm putting things back together now - we'll see how it works out.

Ratch
05/04/10, 09:40 PM
I am sitting on the couch reading this and my wife is looking at me like I have 3 heads cuz I am giggling. Then I showed her your post. Gotta love your sense of humor about this.

Broncobowsher
05/04/10, 09:49 PM
I vote this the best entertaining technical post of the year with outstanding photographery as well.

Tito
05/04/10, 09:56 PM
Good stuff Dan, good stuff!

Glad you brought out the bottle of lube!

DirtDonk
05/04/10, 10:00 PM
You gonna re-drill or oblongaticize the holes in the spring perch/cups? Or just use one bolt for starters? Obviously, you don't want only one bolt for the long-haul, but for testing purposes it could work.
And it might give you a new pivoting point as well!

Paul

DanWheeler
05/04/10, 10:03 PM
You gonna re-drill or oblongaticize the holes in the spring perch/cups? Or just use one bolt for starters? Obviously, you don't want only one bolt for the long-haul, but for testing purposes it could work.
And it might give you a new pivoting point as well!

Paul

yup, got the cup and retainer ovaled out. Just put the spring back on and maybe just maybe already seeing a slight improvement.

Gonna do the other side now.

DanWheeler
05/04/10, 10:04 PM
I vote this the best entertaining technical post of the year with outstanding photographery as well.

thanks! it's Monday night and there are no good shows on until Thursday so... this is what happens.

DirtDonk
05/04/10, 10:08 PM
I don't see a quarter inch as letting the axle just flop around in the bushings, or anything like that. But once you add some serious torque, I'll be interested to see what they say then. Especially with lube generously applied.
If enough tension is released doing that though, I don't think those side flanges will stop anything from moving side-to-side if they've a mind to.
And we all know that Broncos "have a mind to" just about all the time.
Remember the old rubber ones, more flexible and without any type of side bolsters for retention, used to just flop out of the sockets after some serious wheeling forces were put into them.

In spite of the fun though, I'm with 'ya Dan. Very interested in seeing just what, if anything, the experiment nets you. In both articulation and axle retention/control.

Paul

DirtDonk
05/04/10, 10:13 PM
...it's Monday night and there are no good shows on until Thursday so... this is what happens.

Guess you don't have cable or are just picky then? Or are you simply at the point that you have more fun working on the Bronco and can pass on Andy Griffith and Green Acres re-runs nowadays? Man, they need to bring back Lost in Space then!
Nah, you're too young for all that fluff.

Hmmm, the old Satellite TV wail... "255 channels and nothing on..."

Paul

TN1776
05/04/10, 10:20 PM
I too just got a good chuckle from your photos and story. I re-thought what I said earlier and I'll clarify...

In my garage, with my floor jack, I can not fully flex my suspension. I tried that a few times and was never able to get to the point where a 2nd tire started to lift, nor fully stuff a tire. On my 2nd trail run however, on a difficult rocky section I learned that my tires would stuff enough to rub the inner fenders and "sipe" themselves. I can not reproduce this behavior any other way than to get very crossed up on a trail or lift a tire with a fork lift.

I also discovered my rear shocks would not extend enough to match the suspension travel on the trail. It had nothing to do with birds chirping or fresh air, it had to do with the terrain and twisting up my axles in ways I can't duplicate in the garage.

Sorry I wasn't more clear earlier - and I'm curious to know how this works out for you. Keep us updated!

broncnaz
05/04/10, 10:21 PM
Have you looked at the hiem end of your arms during full flex? I can almost bet that they are the limiting factor in the eqausion as at your full flex they are probalby hitting the mounting brackets and limiting the twist. Probably even more so than standard radius arms/bushings would. If they are not hitting the brackets then it may just be the hiem itself as it has a limited amount of movement.
I know its been hashed before about c bushings limiting flex but I just dont buy it I've looked at quite a few rigs flexed up with rubber and poly C bushings and havent seen any noticeable flex between the radius arms and axle tube. While I'm sure there is some flex i realy dont think its enough to make any real differance.

broncnaz
05/04/10, 10:28 PM
I too just got a good chuckle from your photos and story. I re-thought what I said earlier and I'll clarify...

In my garage, with my floor jack, I can not fully flex my suspension. I tried that a few times and was never able to get to the point where a 2nd tire started to lift, nor fully stuff a tire. On my 2nd trail run however, on a difficult rocky section I learned that my tires would stuff enough to rub the inner fenders and "sipe" themselves. I can not reproduce this behavior any other way than to get very crossed up on a trail or lift a tire with a fork lift.

I also discovered my rear shocks would not extend enough to match the suspension travel on the trail. It had nothing to do with birds chirping or fresh air, it had to do with the terrain and twisting up my axles in ways I can't duplicate in the garage.

Sorry I wasn't more clear earlier - and I'm curious to know how this works out for you. Keep us updated!

Your only real differance on the trail is that torque will add a little flex and stuff as the axle will load and unload the srpings that is why you may have a little more flex on the trail but really when your not moving you'll have the same flex as you would if you used a jack ,forklift or what ever.
Basically your probably right at the point of axle wrap with that extra flex you get when under power.

DanWheeler
05/04/10, 10:30 PM
I too just got a good chuckle from your photos and story. I re-thought what I said earlier and I'll clarify...

In my garage, with my floor jack, I can not fully flex my suspension. I tried that a few times and was never able to get to the point where a 2nd tire started to lift, nor fully stuff a tire. On my 2nd trail run however, on a difficult rocky section I learned that my tires would stuff enough to rub the inner fenders and "sipe" themselves. I can not reproduce this behavior any other way than to get very crossed up on a trail or lift a tire with a fork lift.

I also discovered my rear shocks would not extend enough to match the suspension travel on the trail. It had nothing to do with birds chirping or fresh air, it had to do with the terrain and twisting up my axles in ways I can't duplicate in the garage.

Sorry I wasn't more clear earlier - and I'm curious to know how this works out for you. Keep us updated!

i know what you mean and I didn't mean to be a smart-ass. My ultimate goal for my suspension is to be able to cycle it just by pulling up on it with my bare hands. Thats not going to happen with C-bushings. Thats why I'm in the process of building a link suspension but the C-bushings will have to get me through the summer.

Broncnaz, nope my 3" Ballistic joints aren't binding at all. They have over 20 degrees misalignment.

BroncoWanted
05/04/10, 11:05 PM
Why not just hook up the front axle on a big center pivot like a tractor. Then the only limiting factor would the front driveshaft and your fenders

Now talk about extreme pivot. That's extreme pivot. Or articulation if you want to use the fancy words.

Just a thought. LOL

Bronchole
05/04/10, 11:23 PM
Dan,

When you have an hour to kill try supporting your front suspension by sitting the wheel on something, then compare that to the numbers that you get by supporting the front end with your jack under the radius arm.

Dan

DanWheeler
05/04/10, 11:33 PM
OK - the verdict is in. The results are measurable but not significant. In terms of fender clearance, I gained or lost only 1/2"

Passnger (stuffed) side: (was about 9")
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1393/857490307_mNgAN-M.jpg

Drivers (drooped) side: (was about 11.5")
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1394/857489941_79AEE-M.jpg

now... I have to put my foot in my mouth for a minute because what TN1776 is correct about not TRULY being able to test articulation in the garage. The problem here is that my rear leaf springs are more than happy to take up the flex needed to lift my passenger tire up. Basically, the front suspension has no "incentive" if you will, to flex.

If I were able to max out my rear springs, then the front might start flexing.

the problem here is balance. Stiff front. Flexy rear.

The solution is equality between front and rear suspension. There's just no way the front C-bushings are going to match the flexibility of the rear springs.

That is why the only way to solve this problem is to put leaf springs in the front or LINK IT! 8-)

Can I add a vote to this thread?

Q: Should I get behind the wheel of this thing now that I've loosened the C-bushings?

;D

DanWheeler
05/04/10, 11:48 PM
Dan,

When you have an hour to kill try supporting your front suspension by sitting the wheel on something, then compare that to the numbers that you get by supporting the front end with your jack under the radius arm.

Dan

I always have an hour to kill ;)

I drove it up on some car ramps I had with 3 2x8s under the ramp.

That was 13" of rise which is probably more than my jack can do already starting kinda high under the radius arms.

I gained about .5" - 1" doing it that way.

jpopsbronco
05/04/10, 11:50 PM
Hmmm good question... well, do you have tube bumpers? if yes then go for it because the bronco will be fine no matter what you rear end lol jk maybe give it a try around the block, give your brakes a test.. Is it a trail only rig or are ya streetin it too?

broncnaz
05/05/10, 12:09 AM
I dont think I would drive it around. although I guess a slow test around the block would be ok might want to put in in 4wd to see how the front axle reacts to torque. I would be a little worried about the C bushings actually working themselves out after awhile as well.

DanWheeler
05/05/10, 12:46 AM
Just got back from a 30 minute test drive. Seems fine. Got up to about 50 with no problems. Steering seems slightly more responsive with a little more body roll. Exactly what I would expect.

Not sure if I'm going to leave the spacers in our not. I dont know how much benefit they are providing at what cost.

I think the "problem" here is that the rear leafs flex so well, the front suspensions isn't going to kick in until the Bronco is about ready to roll over.

I even tried chaining the rear suspension so it wouldn't flex up but I dont have any good way of preventing the other side of the rear from stuffing so that didn't help.

DanWheeler
05/05/10, 12:53 AM
Have you looked at the hiem end of your arms during full flex? I can almost bet that they are the limiting factor in the eqausion as at your full flex they are probalby hitting the mounting brackets and limiting the twist. Probably even more so than standard radius arms/bushings would. If they are not hitting the brackets then it may just be the hiem itself as it has a limited amount of movement.
I know its been hashed before about c bushings limiting flex but I just dont buy it I've looked at quite a few rigs flexed up with rubber and poly C bushings and havent seen any noticeable flex between the radius arms and axle tube. While I'm sure there is some flex i realy dont think its enough to make any real differance.

here are the heims when flexed up on the passenger side. Driver's side was closer than I expected. I need to adjust it and reset the nut because I think it is rotated at rest. Still room to go though.

passenger:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1395/857551502_KkzSB-M.jpg

driver:
http://dano.smugmug.com/Cars/Ford-Bronco/IMG1398/857551783_FnceK-M.jpg

DanWheeler
05/05/10, 12:58 AM
oblongaticize

wait a second... "oblongaticize" ?! how did I miss that? haha.

I can't wait to find a use for that word.

ken75ranger
05/05/10, 05:02 AM
Just goes to show you, the stock arms make a very effective sway bar.

73EB
05/05/10, 08:12 AM
Isn't this a good example of natural selection?

broncnaz
05/05/10, 11:05 AM
What size lift do you have? I have a feeling that springs may be more of your limiting factor at this point. Do you try flexing the front end up when the springs were removed?

DanWheeler
05/05/10, 11:30 AM
What size lift do you have? I have a feeling that springs may be more of your limiting factor at this point. Do you try flexing the front end up when the springs were removed?

lift is 3.5 from Wild Horses. I did try flexing up the driver's side with no spring after I put the spring back on the passenger side and it seemed to flex very well. I had 1 jackstand in the middle of the axle.

I dont know if that was because the passenger side spring was pushing down and there was nothing to push down on the driver's side.

You may be right though. Maybe I'll pop the springs off again and see how things look with no springs.

garberz
05/05/10, 11:39 AM
Why haven't you built a RTI ramp yet?

DirtDonk
05/05/10, 11:58 AM
I think he started one, but ended up cannibalizing it for the new "Wheeler-Mor-Link" longer-than-anyone-else-has long-arm twisty-thingy. Super hyphenated version. And scale model mock-up...
In his kitchen...

Simply no metal left for a ramp. ;D

Paul

broncnaz
05/05/10, 02:20 PM
While it does appear your not flexing all that well I wouldnt say its all that bad. Might want to ask for pics of other people rigs flexed up with 3.5in springs.
I've been pretty surpised that even some of the 5.5in spring/long arm setups dont seem to flex as much as I thought they would.

bludorbronc
05/05/10, 03:21 PM
the bronco was designed for limited offroad use in its day. all the mounts for the suspension are designed to work with everything flat. the radius frame mounts are at 90 degrees to the frame, the trac bar mounts are flat with the frame, the c-bushings are set straight with the axle. its has limited flex. i have 5 inches of lift, just sitting in the drive the frame mount was almost hitting the arm washer, cut the frame mount off and let it go perpindecular to the arm and weld back in place, more room to flex. looking at your pictures you say not enough flex but you arm pivots look almost at their limits of flex, thats why i like the rubber bushings. the c-bushings center themselves using the v on the wedges, i ground the bushings to more of a taper leaving the v point alone but thinned toward the edge so the bushing remained tite but allowing some loosnes in the arm. the trac rod wants to hold the housing flat because it can go up and down but allows no twist, i fashioned a trac rod with the bushing on the frame end and a chevy draglink end on the other,the chevy draglink end is designed with a lot of flex so it allows the axle to go up and down and twist as it travels the arc. also the draglink on the tie rod end allows movement but if too much drop the pitman arm end has the possibility to bind. as you get more offroad use the springs will soften allowing more movement also.

Pokey71
05/05/10, 04:18 PM
Use tie downs from the frame to the rear axle. sinch it down good and WAH LAH! no more rear end flex (well very little) one side might travel up but the other cannot go down. Try that and jack up the front end again. I bet am willing to bet that the front will flex more

DanWheeler
05/05/10, 04:43 PM
Use tie downs from the frame to the rear axle. sinch it down good and WAH LAH! no more rear end flex (well very little) one side might travel up but the other cannot go down. Try that and jack up the front end again. I bet am willing to bet that the front will flex more

I did try that last night. I chained the rear axle to the frame on the passenger side and jacked it up on the front passenger side but not really a big difference. I was able to prevent the passenger rear from flexing UP but not the driver's side rear stuffing DOWN into the wheel well. On the driver's side, I would have to stick something between the frame and axle to prevent it from compressing.

thats actually pretty amazing to think that the rear driver's leaf would be more willing to compress than the front passenger side would be willing to compress into the wheel well when the jack is directly under the passenger front, but the driver's rear is doing all the work.

Says a lot of good things about the Wild Horses leafs and a lot of bad things about the C-bushings.

r36130
05/05/10, 06:46 PM
I have done it. I used 1/4 plate as the spacers between the cap and arm then tightened them back up. The truck has a little bit of body role it didn't have before. Its nothing scary though. It did make a reasonable difference. My arms are also extended 8 inches. It think any looser would not be a good idea beacuse they would not have very much compression when tightened.

DanWheeler
05/05/10, 06:53 PM
I have done it. I used 1/4 plate as the spacers between the cap and arm then tightened them back up. The truck has a little bit of body role it didn't have before. Its nothing scary though. It did make a reasonable difference. My arms are also extended 8 inches. It think any looser would not be a good idea beacuse they would not have very much compression when tightened.

sweet... fellow spacer maker - high five!

thanks for responding. well you're still alive enough to respond so thats a good sign. How long you had the spacers in there?

cbford
05/05/10, 07:48 PM
I did a bunch of this stuff too. Since I have a full machine shop, I used steel tube, chain and a forklift and did this:
I tacked a piece of 3x3 tube vertically between the top of the leafs and the frame in rear. then, lifted the front left/right tire with a forklift. The back didnt flex either way and the front would not flex to the point of interference before the truck would flop over on its side ( I came REAL close one time).
This made me think that the truck didnt weigh enough to overcome the stiffness of the urethane bushings. But I wasnt sure, so... without changing anything else, I chained the front frame to the floor and lifted the tire again. It will max out then (and tweak all your door alignments and stuff).
This said to me that as the suspension reaches max compression it exhibits force enough to evercome the weight of the truck. Rear flex just makes for more overall motion before that happens. i wasnt interested in building a link suspension so my solution was longer arms. Like Bowsher said, it reduces the angles before you reach max flex, thus allows more travel before bushings bind and lift weight of truck.
I also noticed a difference in using rubber vs urethane bushings, I guess because they are softer.

r36130
05/05/10, 08:06 PM
they have been in for about 9 months and i drive it almost everyday.

Pokey71
05/06/10, 08:25 AM
the c bushings are 5 years old with stock arms (cage arms coming VERY soon)
Look how much the rear is stuffed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/SrKyAaTnE4162/20478_305789240947_652715947_448924.jpg

coby
12/08/10, 02:22 PM
I know this is a few months old but I've been out of the game for a while and I had a q.....has there been a rash of axle tubes twisting off with wristed arms over the last decade?


I vote #2;D

I would worry about loosening the caps because it would allow for a signifient loss of caster during braking (due to torque).

I have always understood the front axle and radius arms acted like a giant sway bar. Generally good for driving faster then allowed in school zones. But we have known for years that it isn't the greatest for articulating off-road. We have had cures ranging from wristed radius arms, wristed axle housings and the big one recently is long arms. The wristed stuff simply puts hinges in the system. The longer arms work a little different. You still have a sway bar affect but the properties of that arm are much different now. You can get more inches of travel per degree of rotation. You have longer arm trying to torque the axle housing but like using a longer cheater bar on that stuck nut you have to put in more travel but less effort.
Another option not generally looked at is to pinch the frame side of the radius arms together. The more they are pinched the less of a radius arm affect they would have. The ultimate version of this is the mono-arm with a single piviot point. I remember seeing some people tried this before (of Pirate? with not so great reuslts as ALL of the force was placed on a single piviot point, reminds me of all front axle torque through one arm with a wristed arm). Anyway I see potential to vary the sway bar affect by managing the pinch of the radius arm mounts. I can also see potential of straight long arms (tire clearance without the weak point bend that can and has folded)

DanWheeler
12/08/10, 02:45 PM
I know this is a few months old but I've been out of the game for a while and I had a q.....has there been a rash of axle tubes twisting off with wristed arms over the last decade?

in all the years and all the offroad boards I've been on, I have not seen a single picture ever of a spun axle tube. (I would like to see a pic)

oh and just to follow up on this thread, I drove around with the washers/spacers the rest of the summer until I sold the Dana 44 and they did just fine.

real world results were positive, I think:

http://dano.smugmug.com/Outdoor/Offroading-Walker-Valley-May/IMG1459/868096169_tyXXX-L.jpg

http://dano.smugmug.com/Outdoor/Offroading-Walker-Valley-May/IMG1460/868096581_8TTBA-L.jpg

Obviously that picture was taken with the Bronco being level, not pointing downhill on a ramp with all the weight of the vehicle working against the C-bushings and springs. Backing up a ramp is cheating and doesn't prove a thing. Who drives backwards up the trail?

The rear leaf springs were maxed out in the opposite direction in the pic above. It looks like my shocks wouldn't let the front axle drop any lower. Had the rear leaf springs not been maxed out the opposite direction, I dont think the front would have flexed this much.

It's a resistance game. The rear springs have the least roll resistance so they will do all the work until they run out of flex then the front will start taking up the rest.

bottom line - you're front and rear roll resistance need to be balanced to get balanced results. As soon as I can afford it, I will 3 or 4-link the rear using coilover spring weights to match the spring frequency of the front.

and if I put a anti-sway bar in the front, I will put one in the rear or I will run them disconnected on the trail so the front/rear can flex equally.

PS - all that silicone lube I put on the C-bushings was gone by the end of summer. It might be better to use some of that super sticky, thick grease that comes in the little packets when you buy poly bushings. You can get entire jars of that stuff.

blazinchuck
12/08/10, 03:41 PM
i would suggest swapping coils, maybe im missing something here? are you trying to get better flex with what you have? I see you have heims on the arms. before i got cage arms/coils..i used Wh rock crawler coils,longer arms, with poly arm/frame bushings...flex was just ok, then i swapped to the degreed arm/frame bushings from WH and flex was way better. now with the cage stuff/flex is way better than anything i had before. progressive coils would work better IMO

nice thread tho

DanWheeler
12/08/10, 06:34 PM
i was just experimenting with what I had to get me a little flex for the rest of the summer.

I am now in the process of 3-linking a Dana 60. Goodbye C-bushings. You will not be missed.

Bronchole
12/13/10, 10:15 AM
I have personally repaired (on the trail) a few rotated front axle housings, no pics though. In all cases the factory plug weld was not sufficent to keep the housing center section from spinning on the tubes. In one case the person was using factory radius arms, but not factory HP ;)

Dan

garberz
12/13/10, 11:23 AM
I have personally repaired (on the trail) a few rotated front axle housings, no pics though. In all cases the factory plug weld was not sufficent to keep the housing senter section from spinning on the tubes. In one case the person was using factory radius arms, but not factory HP ;)

Dan

TDS 2010, Nice job with the multi battery arc welding fix. Very impressive.;D
Mark

Bronchole
12/15/10, 10:24 AM
It's nice to be remembered ;)

garberz
12/15/10, 05:01 PM
It's nice to be remembered ;)

Dan, we've never officially met, but I was with Matt and the rest of the Socal Bunch. I just thought it was cool that you were able to take care of his spun front end out there with a few batteries and some stick. A good first impression. :)
Mark

Bronchole
12/16/10, 01:28 PM
No prob, maybe we'll meet up at BBBB!

I actually use a readywelder, not stick. It's a 1.5 (18VDC) to 4 or more battery powered wire feed welder. I don't know what you would used more than 3 batteries for with this thing, at 3 batteries it works pretty good for cutting thru 5/16 plate if you ddon't keep it moving along!