No Start! help please & and a bog since rebuild

shawski · Jun 5, 2010

Hi all,

I was just driving around in my '68. It's one of the first drives since the recent head rebuild, so still tweaking things.

I was approaching a light, and the engine starting a bog thing, like it was choking. So it stalled. Then I tried to restart it at the green light, it didn't start! The hood is off right now, so i could see one spark from the POS battery terminal when turning the key. Nothing would crank at all, just a click with a spark.

So I've got two problems apparently, not start, and a bogging.

shawski · Jun 5, 2010

Sorry, I hit enter on accident...

Any idea on what the spark from the battery pos is? Would it be a solenoid issue?

The bogging, I have NO clue. I don't know if it's there's bad vaccuum pressure in the engine?

I have noticed since the rebuild there is more oil burnoff coming out of the driver side valve cover hose entering into the airbox to be recycled. Anything here maybe??

THANK YOU ALL!!!

Shaw

blubuckaroo · Jun 5, 2010

I'd say start with the easy stuff first. Fix the battery cable and then try it.

oleguy74 · Jun 5, 2010

a loose or bad cable or dirty post on batt.clean post and tighten cable.badpower connection could cause some of your trble.make sure you have a good fuel supply.

DirtDonk · Jun 5, 2010

On the smokey air from the driver's side, do you have your full PCV system hooked up correctly? I think we talked about it before, but not sure if that was you or not, so I was wondering.

Refresh our (mine at least!) memory and tell us just what you did to the engine? A valve job only? Cam change or new timing gear or anything else related to the cam? Changes to the carburetor or any ignition changes?

Thanks

Paul

DirtDonk · Jun 5, 2010

Oh, and no matter how you look at it, a spark at the battery cable is NOT a good thing! As you figured I'm sure. Could you tell precisely where the spark was? Was it right at the top of the post and the cable? Or nearer the solenoid? Could it have been any other wires near there?

Are you getting any power to anything right now? If it was a blown fusible link, you would likely have seen a spark or two, and then nothing would have worked.
If you can get the engine to turn over with the starter though, then that link is probably still ok.

Paul

av bronco · Jun 5, 2010

It sounds like your floats stuck at the light then you have a bad connection somewhere between the batt, starter, solenoid, ground.

mrw · Jun 6, 2010

Check your battery ground, make certain you have good ground on the motor and the tub. It is possible that with a bad ground when you hit the starter you can get an arc from the solenoid to some ground, like the inner fender. I had a '79 do just that.

br0nc0xrapt0r · Jun 6, 2010

My money is on starter solenoid I lose one about every year.

shawski · Jun 7, 2010

DirtDonk said:
On the smokey air from the driver's side, do you have your full PCV system hooked up correctly? I think we talked about it before, but not sure if that was you or not, so I was wondering.

Refresh our (mine at least!) memory and tell us just what you did to the engine? A valve job only? Cam change or new timing gear or anything else related to the cam? Changes to the carburetor or any ignition changes?

Thanks

Paul

Hey Paul,

The system is hooked up the way it was when I bought it...which worked fine then, i'd assume it's hooked up correctly. The driver side valve cover has what looks like a "Breather valve" on it, with a foot long hose that connects to the inlet on the airbox. The Passenger side valve cover also has a hose connected to it, but it's a PCV valve, i just put a new one on last week...assuming that's correct too.

As for the upper end rebuild, it was Heads only. valves, springs, retainers, hot bath, original heads. I didn't touch the cam and timing chain, i'm assuming are stock too. Not changed from when I bought it. I didn't touch ignition or carb either.

shawski · Jun 7, 2010

DirtDonk said:
Oh, and no matter how you look at it, a spark at the battery cable is NOT a good thing! As you figured I'm sure. Could you tell precisely where the spark was? Was it right at the top of the post and the cable? Or nearer the solenoid? Could it have been any other wires near there?

Are you getting any power to anything right now? If it was a blown fusible link, you would likely have seen a spark or two, and then nothing would have worked.
If you can get the engine to turn over with the starter though, then that link is probably still ok.

Paul

Hey Paul,
I figured that wasn't good, haha, especially as i've got people honking at me for stalling in the lane, haha. The spark was a vertical spark off the top of the positive post, almost coming out of the groove between the wire clamp and post itself.

I got it running with a rolling start and drove it home (had to keep the RPM's up to keep it from bogging/stalling again, which was even tough), my drive home the blinkers were working, so to answer your question, yes i was getting power to components. Not sure about the fusible link, i haven't seen that on this original wiring harness yet, my centech harness on my other truck had one for sure, i'm not sure if this one does though.

Going to clean and replace battery wire/terminal later today, try clean connection again. Then cross fingers.

shawski · Jun 7, 2010

av bronco said:
It sounds like your floats stuck at the light then you have a bad connection somewhere between the batt, starter, solenoid, ground.

Hi AV,

Thanks for your input. I'm new to the carb maintenance. Can you elaborate on the float being stuck. I understand the theory, but is there any way i can test that, or see if it's working properly?

I got the truck started by popping the clutch to get home that day, but the whole ride home i had to keep the RPM's up, and it was like keeping them high made it want to die again. Almost like 1,000 to 1,500 cruising it was ok, under 1,000 it worked its way to die, over 1,500 it wanted to bog out. catch 22.

thanks

shawski · Jun 7, 2010

mrw said:
Check your battery ground, make certain you have good ground on the motor and the tub. It is possible that with a bad ground when you hit the starter you can get an arc from the solenoid to some ground, like the inner fender. I had a '79 do just that.

MRW,
Thanks!
I relocated the soloniod from stock position (inside inner passanger fender well, next to dipstick and manifolds) to front of same fender well, directly behind battery. This is where it was on my last '66, seemed to work fine. Although your "arcing" theory intrigues me. Since I moved it, there are some wires now overlapping eachother (grounds, power, etc), could these arc? Or since insulated, they're fine?
I'll check grounds.

Thanks

DirtDonk · Jun 7, 2010

shawski said:
The driver side valve cover has what looks like a "Breather valve" on it, with a foot long hose that connects to the inlet on the airbox. The Passenger side valve cover also has a hose connected to it, but it's a PCV valve, i just put a new one on last week...assuming that's correct too.

Let's just make sure here. The driver's side then has a simple and direct connection to the clean air from the filter housing then? No fancy valves or anything, just maybe a plastic fitting or "elbow" type dealy?

And the passenger side valve that you replaced, does it go directly to full manifold vacuum? Would normally be either to a fitting in the lower part of the carburetor, or, in the case of stock, to a port on the plate below the carb.
Either way though, it has to have full vacuum and the fittings should be clean.
Reason I say clean is that, although the carb mounted fittings stay pretty clean, the ones in the adapter plate from Ford tend to get plugged up with burned-on gunk over the years and get pretty clogged up.
If you've got that plate, at least make sure that you have a huge vacuum pull when you pull the valve out. It should suck your finger right up to the hole pretty hard.

Paul

DirtDonk · Jun 7, 2010

shawski said:
Going to clean and replace battery wire/terminal later today, try clean connection again. Then cross fingers.

Yep, clean and tight is a good thing.
Let us know how things look once you get them apart and cleaned.

Paul

DirtDonk · Jun 7, 2010

shawski said:
I relocated the soloniod from stock position (inside inner passanger fender well, next to dipstick and manifolds) to front of same fender well, directly behind battery. This is where it was on my last '66, seemed to work fine. Although your "arcing" theory intrigues me. Since I moved it, there are some wires now overlapping eachother (grounds, power, etc), could these arc? Or since insulated, they're fine?
I'll check grounds.

I'll throw this out there too, while I'm at it.
The location you moved the relay to is fine. Just make sure it's got a very good ground connection where it bolts to the body. If the bolts or metal is rusty, you might get some grief there. Usually though, as long as it clicks and works, you've got a sufficient ground. I just always like mentioning anything that has to do with grounding.

You're right in thinking that the crossed wires "should" be fine. As long as they're fully covered in their jackets, with no worn spots or cracks, you should not get any arcing. But, wherever you have put wires that cross each other and are able to move independently, you will eventually get wear. So whether they're good now or not, eventually you could have trouble.
So just check them to make sure that either there is a gap where they cross, they're well anchored to minimize movement in general, or zip-tied together so they won't chafe any insulation.

And now's a good time to trace any and all of those wires you were moving around so you can verify they go where they're supposed to, and don't have any loose or corroded ends that need to be addressed.

Paul

ssray · Jun 8, 2010

shawski said:
Hey Paul,
The spark was a vertical spark off the top of the positive post, almost coming out of the groove between the wire clamp and post itself.

Going to clean and replace battery wire/terminal later today, try clean connection again. Then cross fingers.

Yes, that sounds like the battery connections are past cleaning. When you take off the cables the battery posts and cable clamps will likely have some pitting on them. The sparks are when the electrical current is trying to find a path through the oxidation and corrosion in the connection. It finds a small path of least resistance and the resulting current in that small area actually melts a bit of lead in the process. Sometimes that results in a connection that will supply power to start and run but things will get worse with time.

Cleaning terminals with baking soda and water or a spray on commercial cleaner on a regular basis will help prevent this. There are also spray on protectants that help keep terminals clean longer. Auto parts stores carry wire brush battery terminal cleaners that work fairly well or emery cloth will always work with a little elbow grease.

Scott

P.S. This can also get dangerous when boosting the vehicle trying to get it started. Those sparks can ignite the hydrogen gas produced in charging. That can flash back into the battery and blow the top of the battery off in pieces. Not good if you're anywhere in the vicinity especially without safety glasses. I've also seen a battery explode from a internal short or bad cell when starting a tractor so always use caution with the hood open when trying to start a vehicle for any reason. You really don't want your face or eyes within range of the battery if it goes. Besides pieces of battery there may also be sulfuric acid flying as well. Laying a wet towel over the battery can help damp an explosion but I can't say I've seen many people use that practice, myself included. We're alway in too big of a hurry to bother.

No Start! help please & and a bog since rebuild

shawski

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