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Watts Link, Mumford Link? Because ANYone can buy a TrackBar

KennyB

Full Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
275
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Simi Valley
Ok, my 4 link bars are 43"... and When I have the Calculator up, and hold My Protractor to the Screen (yes I do this) I'm a little under 40* total.... So, I know adding a Track Bar to the Rear is the Quick Fix... But, Anyone can do that... now, Very little info on Anyone using Watts Link, or a Mumford Link on an Offroader... I'm going to cut up some conduit... and work it... hey, No Images on these links with a 4X4, and 12+ inches of travel,... so, Use your Imagination... The Watts link does work beter (so I've read) if the link is Frame Mounted....
 

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KennyB

KennyB

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Another Watts Pic.... and Yes, with All the Pipe, Flat Stock, Bushings, Johnny Joints, Ballistic Joints, Heim Joints out there, Yes, If I can get this to work, I'll weld one up, and Give it a shot.....
 

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DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
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Nov 3, 2003
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47,275
Watts links are an excellent answer to some, but I've never seen one on a long-travel suspension. I haven't done the math (and not likely ever to), but wouldn't it normally be the limiting factor?
I suppose if you could build each link with it's length optimized for a certain amount of travel, it could be a possibility. Just not sure it's feasible.

What does your protractor/screen interface say in that regard?

Paul
 

mp

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Dec 22, 2001
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2,914
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Austin, TX
The Endeavor Baja EB racer ran a Watts link up front for about 50 miles.....and now it has a normal track bar.
 

ken75ranger

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Jan 27, 2002
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Troy, NY
I looked at doing Watts linkage. There were 2 problems we couldn't easily get around. The lower link would be very low (my moderate wheeling would have trashed it) and the rear cross member on the frame was in the way.
 

SwedenBronco

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Jun 14, 2009
Messages
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Loc.
Gothenburg, Sweden
My guess is that the watt link wouldn't be the limiting factor in a long travel suspension, it's the size of it all that would, the center mount would have to be fairly long, probably making the lower link the lowest point on your suspension, makin it a not so good solution. I know that the watt links works very well, I have a couple of friends driving rallycross, they all use the watt linkage
 

Broncobowsher

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Jun 4, 2002
Messages
34,821
If you Watt's linked it then thre would be a strong possibility with it binding with the triangulated links in the back. That would require un-triangulating the rear and give sole control of the lateral movement to the watt's linkage, or other form of laterial axle control.
 

Steve83

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All those Watts link pics are inverted from every factory setup I've ever seen. Here's a Crown Vic:

.

A Land Rover DiscoII Watts link is almost the same (though the suspension is VERY different), but the link assembly is BEHIND the rear axle, and the center link is in the vertical plane with the long links. In both, though, the short center link is attached to the middle of the axle housing, and the long links go to the frame (high), giving plenty of ground clearance. The rubber mounts prevent any binding as the suspension travels (~6" in the CV; almost 11" in the LR), but the CV uses the angled center link to allow fore-aft movement of the axle, where the LR uses the rubber bushings. Note that the LR diff is off-center.



If you wanted to Watts link a regular 8.8", you could use the rear cover from an IRS 8.8" as your mounting point:

 
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KennyB

KennyB

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Sep 11, 2010
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Simi Valley
...ok, Moving Away from Watts Link, for the Amount of Travel we need, and the way It's Connected High and low doesnt work for me..... But, This "Mumford Link" is amazing. Each of the 2 main Brackets need to rotate. and should be Double Sheared. So? Johnny Joint? DOM with Bearings? then the Linkage will use 3 R and 3 L Heim Joints.

I'm wondering What size Rods and Heims 1/2" Heims with 3/4" Rods?

The BIG reason to go Mumford is the Rods connecting the Linkage to the Axels, sets Your Roll Center Height. So, you can Raise your RCH by setting the Linkage width! and, The way this was designed, I dont see a problem with inhibiting long Travel Suspension.

I have rotated a picture 180 Degrees to show What I wanna do.... Seriously, this is messing with me like Popcorn Stuck in my teeth.....
 

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mavereq

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Feb 19, 2009
Messages
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you're working against the k.i.s.s. principal but hell, give it a shot man. you might come up with something that works really well. if it doesn't work then you can always throw a trackbar on it.

you could always move your lower link frame mounts further inboard to get more triangulation.
 

mavereq

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Feb 19, 2009
Messages
2,092
have you thought about a wishbone style 3 link? that would keep your axle centered.
 

ken75ranger

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Troy, NY
There still going to be a packaging issue with a Mumford set up in an EB. The links or the center link bar need to be long to get decent travel.
EB frames are narrow so the side links would be pretty short unless you go outside the frame.
If the center link bar is long it going to be dragged on the rocks.

If you are still game for it, I'd use 3/4 inch rod ends on the center links and urethane mounts at the frame for some isolation and to keep the heims straight.
That's not a place I'd setup to do quick adjustment links with LH and RH threaded rod ends. Too much of a chance of it getting loose with all the movement.
 

JB Fab

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There still going to be a packaging issue with a Mumford set up in an EB. The links or the center link bar need to be long to get decent travel.
EB frames are narrow so the side links would be pretty short unless you go outside the frame.
If the center link bar is long it going to be dragged on the rocks.

If you are still game for it, I'd use 3/4 inch rod ends on the center links and urethane mounts at the frame for some isolation and to keep the heims straight.
That's not a place I'd setup to do quick adjustment links with LH and RH threaded rod ends. Too much of a chance of it getting loose with all the movement.

I aggree!
 
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KennyB

KennyB

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Simi Valley
.. OK Mumford Link Is a Big Fat NO...

Nice on Straight Up n Down,... They Dont allow Articulation....

(And Thank you Dan Wheeler for the Model-it-up-first idea)
 

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KennyB

KennyB

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Now, a Watts Link... *Remember, Your Roll Center Height, is the Center of the Watts link*

Starting from Center - 0 - (Ride Height) then articulating up and down 6". Then, Center at 0, and other side up, then Down 6"... And Then, Up 6" on one side, and Down 6" on the other. Measuring the lateral movement.

This is a Typical Frame Mount Design. Lateral Rod mounted above, and Below Axel. Of Coarse we can have this Mess Hanging Down,...

But a Good Model to get the idea going... Center link 8", Axel links 4" Above, and Below Axel Center.
 

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ken75ranger

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Keep in mind while you're designing, the lower bar doesn't have to be parallel to the axle tube at ride height. It can go up toward the frame just make sure it clears the center link during articulation.
 
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KennyB

KennyB

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ok, Now, I've put the Mounts Above the axel, nad have the "Propeller" equal to the distance between Risers (4") and, the Sideways articulation is much less.
 

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