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Body roll

jboomer

Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
506
Loc.
Havelock, NC
As my interest in my bronco is renewed (hasn't been driven in nearly 3 months..no excuse), I took my son out for a ride today. A few months back I was having steering issues and with the help of you all, was able to get them sorted out. Now, onto the next issue:

When I roll into a curve, the first movement of my steering wheel almost has to be a "twitch" to get the body to roll, then a slight relax of the wheel to stabilize in the turn. Basically, the front end wants to tuck under (for lack of a better description) and if left to its own would probably let the wheels to tuck further and further (accelerating rate/decreasing radius turn....similar to the instability of a tricycle geared airplane) until the truck finally rolled over. it's got a 3 1/2" suspension (JBG) and 1" body lift on 33" tires (15" rims). Tire pressure is 35 psi all around.

I have an old rear sway bar (not installed...bushings were shot). Would this help? It feels like the front end is the problem though. The shocks may be a little soft i guess, but if you hit a sharp edged bump, itll jar the fillings out of your teeth (not bottom out, just poor high speed dampening). They're relatively new, not worn out. I've never been off road in it, there's no trails within driving distance...so I'm not worried about handicapping it's droop with a sway bar if it'll help. If I could improve its road manners a bit more, I'd be more inclined to drive more frequently! As it is, straight line is just fine, but every curve in the road is a white-knuckle experience! I can handle it ok for the most part, but if I dropped a wheel off the pavement or had to make a slightly aggressive swerve to avoid something, I'm pretty sure it would roll on over!
 

lowbush

Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
1,807
Loc.
Summerland Key, FL
As my interest in my bronco is renewed (hasn't been driven in nearly 3 months..no excuse), I took my son out for a ride today. A few months back I was having steering issues and with the help of you all, was able to get them sorted out. Now, onto the next issue:

When I roll into a curve, the first movement of my steering wheel almost has to be a "twitch" to get the body to roll, then a slight relax of the wheel to stabilize in the turn. Basically, the front end wants to tuck under (for lack of a better description) and if left to its own would probably let the wheels to tuck further and further (accelerating rate/decreasing radius turn....similar to the instability of a tricycle geared airplane) until the truck finally rolled over. it's got a 3 1/2" suspension (JBG) and 1" body lift on 33" tires (15" rims). Tire pressure is 35 psi all around.

I have an old rear sway bar (not installed...bushings were shot). Would this help? It feels like the front end is the problem though. The shocks may be a little soft i guess, but if you hit a sharp edged bump, itll jar the fillings out of your teeth (not bottom out, just poor high speed dampening). They're relatively new, not worn out. I've never been off road in it, there's no trails within driving distance...so I'm not worried about handicapping it's droop with a sway bar if it'll help. If I could improve its road manners a bit more, I'd be more inclined to drive more frequently! As it is, straight line is just fine, but every curve in the road is a white-knuckle experience! I can handle it ok for the most part, but if I dropped a wheel off the pavement or had to make a slightly aggressive swerve to avoid something, I'm pretty sure it would roll on over!

A sway bar will help, but I think you may need new shocks, the fact that it will "jar the fillings out of you teeth" is usually a tell tale sign of them needing to be replaced. If the truck sits a lot, the shocks can go bad, it seems to be more of a problem with the cheaper shocks. Most people think that when shocks go bad, they bottom out, but the reality is that they don't recover fast enough. Causing jarring on many small bumps and slop when turning. What brand are you running? If you decide to swap them out go with Bilstein they really are worth the slight premium and you can read the countless threads of how each truck is night and day after installing Bilstein's. Swap the front two, see if it makes a difference, if it does consider doing the rear.
 

spap

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
2,455
Just putting a sway bar the rear will make it worse unless you have a front bar then it will help. Double front shocks help a lot with mild body roll or just good new front shocks probably a world of difference like kls said
 

lowbush

Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
1,807
Loc.
Summerland Key, FL
Just putting a sway bar the rear will make it worse unless you have a front bar then it will help. Double front shocks help a lot with mild body roll or just good new front shocks probably a world of difference like kls said

Yeah forgot, to say front but that is what I meant.
 
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jboomer

jboomer

Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
506
Loc.
Havelock, NC
I've got the Doetsch Techs that come with the JBG lift kits. I can't believe they're bad though! They've only been on for three years and have less than a thousand miles on them (street only). Yeah, I figured putting the rear sway bar on might be the wrong way to go. Ugh, so new shocks, and Bilsteins? Any way to check if they're definitely bad?
 

El Kabong

Contributor
Driving stuff Henry built
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
1,485
So does it feel like the body is leaning too much, or like the tires are turning on their own beyond the amount you turned them?
 

lowbush

Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
1,807
Loc.
Summerland Key, FL
I've got the Doetsch Techs that come with the JBG lift kits. I can't believe they're bad though! They've only been on for three years and have less than a thousand miles on them (street only). Yeah, I figured putting the rear sway bar on might be the wrong way to go. Ugh, so new shocks, and Bilsteins? Any way to check if they're definitely bad?

Take one off and compress it let it go and see if it rebounds, if it does not or if it is very slow, it is bad. Usually if they are totally shot they won't even rebound.
 

TN1776

Bronco Guru
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
2,632
Mine behaved like that with the cheapo Pro-Comp shocks that I started with. It was very pronounced at highway speed on a curvy road, worse when loaded with some gear. I upgraded to some adjustable reservoir shocks up front and it drives a lot nicer now. I have heard similar complaints with shocks that come in kits from a few vendors. I am not a fan of dual shocks as a solution (plus I run single F250 towers up front), so better single shocks were my solution.

Before throwing money at the problem though, take it to an alignment shop and find out where you're at with camber, caster, and toe. My rig didn't handle well with too much toe-in, would kind of dart a little in turns. Caster can be adjusted with different bushings, camber can be addressed by a few different methods.
 
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jboomer

jboomer

Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
506
Loc.
Havelock, NC
El Kabong...both maybe? A different description is that it feels like the front tire pressure is low. Al most like it takes a second for the front end to " bite". And this is after the truck "leans" over (hence "body roll"). The body rolls, the front end tucks under, then the truck accelerates slightly into the turn. Clear as mud?

Unfortunately it'll be a while before I can afford those Bilsteins. There's too many other things competing for my money. I'll probably try boosting the front end tire pressure 3 more lbs or so, up from 35. I'm not 100% certain the tires aren't contributing somewhat to the problem (General Grabbers) too.

The alignment/angles were checked a couple months back. I had to replace the ball joints before they'd set the alignment. Unfortunately I didn't get the angles from the shop. They said it was slightly out of alignment, but everything else checked out ok, but the mechanic didnt "record them" while it was up. I'm kicking myself over that now. Any idea what the optimal toe-in is? If we're deviating from the book spec, is there a better place to start? I hate to keep paying that much money just to experiment on something that may not be an issue, ya know?
 

lowbush

Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
1,807
Loc.
Summerland Key, FL
El Kabong...both maybe? A different description is that it feels like the front tire pressure is low. Al most like it takes a second for the front end to " bite". And this is after the truck "leans" over (hence "body roll"). The body rolls, the front end tucks under, then the truck accelerates slightly into the turn. Clear as mud?

Unfortunately it'll be a while before I can afford those Bilsteins. There's too many other things competing for my money. I'll probably try boosting the front end tire pressure 3 more lbs or so, up from 35. I'm not 100% certain the tires aren't contributing somewhat to the problem (General Grabbers) too.

The alignment/angles were checked a couple months back. I had to replace the ball joints before they'd set the alignment. Unfortunately I didn't get the angles from the shop. They said it was slightly out of alignment, but everything else checked out ok, but the mechanic didnt "record them" while it was up. I'm kicking myself over that now. Any idea what the optimal toe-in is? If we're deviating from the book spec, is there a better place to start? I hate to keep paying that much money just to experiment on something that may not be an issue, ya know?


Have you checked you steering slop, maybe you have something going on in the steering as far as the delayed engagement issue.
 
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jboomer

jboomer

Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
506
Loc.
Havelock, NC
I don't think that's the issue. There's a little play, but it's very responsive (almost too responsive). The more I think about it, the more I suspect a combo of overly soft front shocks or springs (allowing the front end to roll) and possibly some sidewall flex from the tires. I'll try adjusting air pressure today to see if it helps at all.

If the shocks were bad, wouldn't the front end "float" around even when driving in a straight line? I get this picture in my mind of the old caddilac floating on a cloud feeling, where the shocks are shot and you're riding on springs only.
 

Apogee

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
6,030
Bad shocks will make body roll feel worse, however in a sustained corner with lateral-g's, shocks to little to nothing in controlling body roll/sway. Good shocks should however help during small, sudden corrections, so if they are bad, then they should be replaced. To check your shocks, you can bounce each corner and see if it immediately stabilizes when you stop or it continues to bounce. If not, then replace them. If you're not sure, disconnect one end of the shock and repeat for comparison.

Soft springs that allow decent articulation and don't kill your ride quality will require sway bars if you want to control sway. Most suspension guru's that I've spoken to say to pick and setup your front bar first, then add a rear bar if and only if needed since too much rear bar can be just as harmful as too little from a handling perspective. The easy alternative would be to drive slower.

Your air pressures sound too high to me already and are probably contributing to your overly harsh ride. I run my 33's between 28-30 psi, 35's 26-28 psi, 37's...don't know, haven't run them yet. Ideal pressures vary from rig to rig and tire to tire, but if you're going to play with tire pressures, you may want to try lower, not just higher.
 
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jboomer

jboomer

Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
506
Loc.
Havelock, NC
With 38 psi up front, it didn't roll quite as bad, but yeah, that's definitely on the high side. I may be compensating for crappy tires with high air pressure. I'll experiment with lower once it quits raining (did I mention how crappy these tires are? I hydroplaned at least a dozen times and found myself off the road twice! Guess I'll be one of those guys that drive 35 when the roads are wet....or my truck will be "fair weather" only.). It would still "dart" in the turns, just with less roll.

Pushing down on the front end, it's amazing how soft it is! With a big push, it gives 3 small rocks before stabilizing. Maybe the shocks really ARE bad? Comparing it to my 2008 GMC with a 6" lift, that barely gives when I push on it and it immediately goes back to its original position with zero rock! Huge difference!

I just can't afford Bilsteins or Fox shocks right now. I'm just so disappointed that these shocks that came with my kit are already bad! How can you drive a vehicle with stock suspension for 15 plus years and 150,000+ miles without replacing shocks, yet I can't get 3 years and a 1000 miles out of aftermarket shocks?
 
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jboomer

jboomer

Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
506
Loc.
Havelock, NC
I still haven't replaced the shocks, in fact, I've only driven it a few times since my last post. However, I charged the battery and pulled it out of the garage today. I started it and had my wife turn the wheel back and forth a few times while I watched the front end. I'm getting quite a bit of flex from the steering box mounting bracket (F-150 box maybe?) and the track bar dop down bracket. The steering box bracket is moving around a quarter of an inch and the drop down bracket a little less than a quarter of an inch. I've checked all bolts and they're as tight as I can get them. The only other thing I can think to do is weld both to the frame. Is this how most do theirs? I took a video of it, but don't know where to put it so it can be viewed here.
 
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