View Full Version : POR-15 What went wrong?


KDML
11/14/05, 09:35 PM
Decided I would Por-15 the insides of my hood and fenders. Ground all of the old undercoat, paint and rust with 60 grit sanding disc to make a clean, rough surface for the POR-15 to grab on to. Any spots I couldn't reach with the sander I used my small media blaster to clean and roughen the surface. Used marine clean washed off with water and blew dry with air gun, then sprayed on metal ready and let sit for 30 minutes, washed with water again and blew dry. Let parts sit for a day to ensure all water had evaporated.

When I applied the POR-15 tonite it appears to have lots of tiny bubbles, as if there is dust under the paint. It is not fish-eye as it is too small and I made sure there was no blasting media on any of the surfaces so it is not dust - it definately looks like tiny bubbles.

Any thoughts on what went wrong? Any ideas on how to fix it? Should I see if I can sand out the bubbles and apply a second coat? Not sure if the second coat will be any better. I am thinking if I have little air bubbles everywhere I am not getting the maximum protection I would expect from POR-15.

2badrotties
11/14/05, 09:41 PM
Did you spray it ? If so you may have moisture in the air lines. That stuff really flows out as it dries. You may go back out there in a couple of hours and it may be smooth. I painted my frame with a brush and by the next day you couldn't tell it was a brush on job.

KDML
11/14/05, 10:00 PM
I applied with a brush.

I just looked at it and it is starting to change color from the wet gloss to dry flat and the bubbles are still there. I don't think these are going to flow out.

I grabbed a clean piece of sheet metal, wiped clean and applied a little of the POR-15 with the brush which is still wet and had the same bubbles appear.

Madgyver
11/14/05, 10:41 PM
Did you stir it up good before application?

j.r.nice
11/14/05, 10:47 PM
DId you shake it by chance?????

horseman
11/14/05, 10:57 PM
All sounds normal when I did my frame it did exactly what your describeing
after it starts drying they went away. Remember to apply your second coat
beforethe first is cured.

ransil
11/15/05, 05:05 AM
Isn't POR-15 a rust converter??

KDML
11/15/05, 05:13 AM
I stirred the POR-15 with a stir stick for 5 minutes before using as it has been sitting on a shelf for a couple of months. There where no air bubbles in the POR-15 before I applied.

I checked it again this morning and the bubbles don't look as bad, but they are still there. I will hit a small section with some light sandpaper to take the tops off the bubbles and apply a very thin second coat to see what happens. Unfortunately, it will be a least 24 hours since the first coat so my second coat will be after the first has cured.

bronx
11/15/05, 11:40 AM
Did you clean your brush with anything before you applied the por-15? POR-15 is only compatible with POR-15 thinner.

bronx

dpmerrill
11/15/05, 11:52 AM
A couple things I would look at are thickness and temperatures.

If you apply it too thick a skin can dry on the surface before the base is dry. That can trap the gasses formed by the curing process and give you bubbles. If you are heating your work area and the steel is colder than the air, that can also cause the surface to dry faster than the base with the same results.

Be careful if you're applying a second coat. Make sure you follow their recommendations. On parts that flex and vibrate as much as hoods and fenders you can run into flaking or peeling problems if you're not careful. Hopefully you don't have to go back to bare metal, but I would try to talk to someone at POR.

Come to think of it, I've seen "POR-15 Depot" posting on this board. Try a PM to them before you apply the second coat.

KDML
11/15/05, 12:10 PM
I did not clean the brush with anything prior to use - it was a new brush.

As for thickness I tried to brush on as thin as possible as I had used POR-15 on another truck frame and knew how easily it flowed so I was trying to avoid runs. In addition, the bubbles appeared immediately so I can't imagine anything had a chance to dry yet.

My work area was not heated so the POR-15 and the parts should have been at the same temp.

I will PM the POR-15 Depot member to see if I can get some advice before applying the second coat.

POR-15 Depot
11/15/05, 12:45 PM
KDML

The problem you are seeing can be caused by verious things. Such as.

1. Very high humitity and moisture is collecting on the surface you can't see and is casuing the bubbles.

2. Some type of oil or solvent has enteracted with the surface and is still there.

3. The surface was cleaned with laq. thinner, common trick for cleaning but will not work for a POR-15 surface.

4. The application is being applied to thick. Use thinner coats of POR-15.

5. The METAL-READY was not totally rinsed from the treated surface and your getting residue from the Rust Conversion process.


My guess without seeing it first hand is the proeblem is being cuased from the old Undercoating. Undercoating has a high content of oils and solvents that pregnate the metal surface. If there is ANY residue from this undercoating left it will enteract with the POR-15.

As for a solution, I'd suggest scuffing the first coat and appling the 2nd coat over it and let it sit and see what happens. This you said you have done. If this still doen't solve the issue and you still have the original can, there is a lot# on top of the can. Send that can to me with the intact lot# and I'll be glad to send you out a replacement to give a shot with. Sorry If I'm not helping much but without seeing the product first hand it's kind of a hit and miss as to what can be causing the problem.

Dave

Mark
11/15/05, 01:13 PM
Dave, that's damn good customer service.

POR-15 Depot
11/15/05, 02:05 PM
Can't achive the best without trying to be the best. We do what we can for this forum with support. I'm not always able to look around the forum for questions, but if notified of an issue, I'll my best to respond to it and try to resolve the problem.

JSmall
11/15/05, 02:12 PM
I just recieved my gallon of POR-15, Metal Ready and Marine clean yesterday :) . I ordered it from The POR-15 depot and after reading this post I'm really glad I did.

KDML
11/15/05, 03:37 PM
Dave

Thanks for the advice

I will try to lightly sand and apply a second coat. Any thoughts as to how I should prep for the second coat after sanding - should I go through the marine clean/metal ready process again to remove the sanding dust or should I wipe with a clean cloth (I have tack cloths as well if this is a better option)

As for you offer to replace the can - I did not originally buy the can from you as I live in the Northeast and just picked a distributor closer to me - so I am not sure if your offer still holds.

In any case if I can get this process down I will definately place my next order with you as I will plan on using POR-15 on much of the truck (underside, doghouse, frame, inside tub).

POR-15 Depot
11/15/05, 04:12 PM
I will try to lightly sand and apply a second coat. Any thoughts as to how I should prep for the second coat after sanding - should I go through the marine clean/metal ready process again to remove the sanding dust or should I wipe with a clean cloth (I have tack cloths as well if this is a better option)


Metal-Ready isn't needed. Just wash down good with the MARINE-CLEAN.


As for you offer to replace the can - I did not originally buy the can from you as I live in the Northeast and just picked a distributor closer to me - so I am not sure if your offer still holds.


I never stipulated you had to have bought it from me.. Just that I would try and help solve the problem. If it's bad I'll replace it.. I *do* pay for advertising here so I'd hope users would at least give us a try on thier purchases of POR-15. I try and answer questions and support the products on my own time, I want to make sure you use it the correct way.


In any case if I can get this process down I will definately place my next order with you as I will plan on using POR-15 on much of the truck (underside, doghouse, frame, inside tub).

Thanks, Hope I've helped some with your issues.

thesnake
11/15/05, 11:23 PM
Dave,

I'm pretty impressed with the quick response and the suggestions and the willingness to replace the por-15. Once winter is over and I can continue on with my project, you've got some business coming from me.

Respectfully,


John

Jason TN
11/16/05, 01:09 AM
To me this says alot about a product, person and company that is willing to do this.

Much respect Dave and if/when Im in the market Ill remember that.

Service goes a long ways in my book.

Orange Crush
11/16/05, 04:07 PM
I never stipulated you had to have bought it from me.. Just that I would try and help solve the problem. If it's bad I'll replace it.. I try and answer questions and support the products on my own time, I want to make sure you use it the correct way.Thanks, Hope I've helped some with your issues.


Absolutely second-to-none service right there. You will be getting some business from me in the spring as well...

oldiron
11/16/05, 06:00 PM
Now I know who I'll be ordering from this weekend.
Greg

KDML
11/22/05, 10:22 PM
Thanks to all for the advice (especially Dave). Second coat went on much better than the first. Moved on to some other parts without any bubbling issues - not sure what my problem was the first time.

On some of the other parts I painted I noticed a fine dust on the surface after I prepped the parts and let them dry. Was easy enough to wipe off. My guess is this is leftover from the metal ready. After applying the metal ready I hosed off the parts, wiped down and hosed off a second time, so I can't understand how anything could still be remaining on the parts. Any advice on making sure my parts are perfectly clean. I would hate to have this dust caught under the paint.

Thanks

supermottl
11/23/05, 09:14 AM
I've painted tons of stuff with POR-15. I mostly use a brush, and it's sorta bubbly when I apply, but it has always smoothed itself out. And after a 2nd coat, it's almost completely perfect. I really like the stuff. Also, when i order, I ususally get my order the next day as it's only going from NJ to Long Island.
I've painted my frame, axles, floors, and various brackets and brake calipers and brackets. So far the only thing that make it peel up is brake fluid, but that's a no brainer...

Good stuff...