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Hydrobooster, Brakes

JoeBronc74

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Jan 12, 2006
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Loc.
FAYETTEVILLE
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I read a thread about hydro boosters for brakes instead of using a vacuum booster, it sounds like this is a prefered system? I've had my stock brakes rebuilt/replaced(drum) all 4 corners, cost me $ so I don't really want to spend more for disk up front (which is what i should have done from the start) If I can get it to stop nicely w/one of these hydro systems. Anyway, she still doesn't stop as good as i would like,as it's all mannual brakes, No booster of any kind-yet. WHERE CAN I GET A HYDRO SYSTEM ? Are they ?:? difficult to install? What kind of $ will I have to shell out? All help appriciated!
 
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broncnaz

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May 22, 2003
Messages
24,341
I'd consider doing the front disc swap first because if you have ever experianced the famous drum brake pull during a stop imagine it ten times worse with Hydroboost thats down right dangerous. As for cost it depends on how much you get from the junkyard and what they cost it can be anywhere from $50 on up but plan on more I'd say $200-300 for everything by the time your done. remember you'll also need a new power steering pump and bracket unless you find the correct one at the junk yard. Try a search there is a lot of info on this swap. Drum brakes should be stopping pretty good although if your runinng big tires it may be time for a upgrade and disc's dissapate heat better than drums.
 

SaddleUp

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A search for Hydroboost here will turn up a lot of reading with several different options. Without going into too much detail I try to sum up your questions.
1: Yes, any of us that are running it consider it far superior to vacuum brakes.
2: You can either buy a kit to do it or do like most of us and get one out of a wrecking yard. I think the kits run about $800 while a wrecking yard unit can usually be installed for $100 or less if you already have power steering.
3: They are not really that difficult to install. A lot depends upon your particular configuration (If you have an EFI intake and/or tranny linkage in the way then they might interfere requiring an angled bracket which will be more work) and what unit you choose. With the Super Duty unit I used all I had to do was drill 4 holes in the firewall and everything else including the master cylinder all just bolted right up. The hardest part was getting a line made that would go between the booster and my steering gear since there wasn't anything stock to do so. I spent a few hours searching books at parts stores before a parts guy at one told me where the local Aeroquip supplier was. It took me 20 minutes to have them set me up a hose with reusable ends that would work. (That isn't including the money and time I originally spent to have 2 lines spliced together that failed after 2 months)
4: As mentioned already you can get by with about $100. (And some get by with even less)

You hinted at the following question though I don't see it mentioned. That being whether Hydroboost will help with all drum brakes. The answer would be yes however they will not fix the inherent problem with drum brakes pulling to one side or another (You will still need to keep them adjusted up to keep them from pulling), and brake fading from either hot or wet brakes. The extra pressure may make the fading from these less apparent but it will still occur.
 

craigaria

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Apr 10, 2005
Messages
848
Loc.
Monroe, GA
I am about to do the same exact swap. I do know that I will need the hydro unit, 2 lines, master cylinder, and a different p.s. pump. What I was wondering is, are there any other parts that I will need besides this. Also, I searched the site and was looking for a list of parts for the astro conversion, or any other that would work. Thanks! Craig
 

Sac '68 sport

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Orangevale
Is a saginaw pump really necessary for the Hydroboost?
Can the stock style not put out enough pressure? I have a York AC bracket right above my PS pump so I'm not sure a Saginaw will fit. It will be really close to the bracket if it does fit.
 

toddz69

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Sac '68 sport said:
Is a saginaw pump really necessary for the Hydroboost?
Can the stock style not put out enough pressure? I have a York AC bracket right above my PS pump so I'm not sure a Saginaw will fit. It will be really close to the bracket if it does fit.

Saddleup uses a late model Ford CII plastic pump with success. I wouldn't try using one of the OEM Thompson pump with hydroboost. Most of the rest of us use Saginaws.

Todd Z.
 

SaddleUp

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craigaria said:
I am about to do the same exact swap. I do know that I will need the hydro unit, 2 lines, master cylinder, and a different p.s. pump. What I was wondering is, are there any other parts that I will need besides this. Also, I searched the site and was looking for a list of parts for the astro conversion, or any other that would work. Thanks! Craig
If you get a hydroboost that matches your master cylinder then you shouldn't need to change it. You will also probably need 3 lines. I only needed 2 because a stock line worked between my pump and booster but I wouldn't count on it being that way. You need that line, a pressure line from the booster to the steering gear, and a return line. (Any power steering return line the right diameter will work for it though since it just uses clamps)
 

SaddleUp

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toddz69 said:
Saddleup uses a late model Ford CII plastic pump with success. I wouldn't try using one of the OEM Thompson pump with hydroboost. Most of the rest of us use Saginaws.

Todd Z.
I don't know what the technical reference is for mine. It's the stock pump for a 90 Crown Vic/Grand Marquis. I will replace it with a saginaw one of these days though so i don't have to listen to it. Or better yet an Explorer Pump if I can find the front dress for one before then.
 

SaddleUp

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Sac '68 sport said:
Is a saginaw pump really necessary for the Hydroboost?
Can the stock style not put out enough pressure? I have a York AC bracket right above my PS pump so I'm not sure a Saginaw will fit. It will be really close to the bracket if it does fit.
You could probably run one with a remote reservior. It would probably take up less space than what you have now. I would be tempted to try it with the stock pump first though. The worst that could happen is you would have to fight the steering with manual brakes.
 

DebosDave'72

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Nov 8, 2005
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Bozeman, MT
SaddleUp said:
I don't know what the technical reference is for mine. It's the stock pump for a 90 Crown Vic/Grand Marquis. I will replace it with a saginaw one of these days though so i don't have to listen to it. Or better yet an Explorer Pump if I can find the front dress for one before then.

Is the explorer pump a good option?

Thanks,

DD
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
34,833
DebosDave'72 said:
Is the explorer pump a good option?

Thanks,

DD
The explorer pump is part of the explorer front dress. That in itself is a good system. Don’t know of anyone complaining of the explorer pump.
I wouldn’t try and force an explorer pump to work with a non-explorer front dress, Just get a Sweet® pump and run that. Mine has been working good for years. For a junkyard swap, Saginaw.
 

TOFIC

Bronco Wrencher and Fixer
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Jan 6, 2004
Messages
3,740
Loc.
Redcliff Alberta
Man I cant let this one get by

Hydroboost is probably the best system for the Bronco made bar none. ( a bit biased ain't I??)
Will it work with all drums?? YES
will it make the drum system really work YES
Will the all drums system pull to one side with Hboost YES
Is it cheap to buy and install?? see my article on the left <<<
Do you have to change the Master cylinder?? NO, if you have a Ford Hboost.
Do you need a Saginaw Pump?? NO but things are a lot better with it.
Is a Saginaw pump hard to install?? NO, takes less room than the Fat Ford one.
Do I need a dual return Pump?? NO, but things work better with one.
Will I kiss the windshield with the brake boost?? YES, EMPHATICALLY and hard.
Will I love my hydroboosted Bronco YES, probably more that beer ( well, lets discuss that issue!!)

I have paid as little as nothing and as much as 50 bucks for hydroboost units.
I will not pay more than 10 dollars for a Saginaw pump.
Lines are as fancy or plain as you want to make them.
You can put in a true wide brake pedal.
Hydroboost does not care what motor you have, it will work.
You will NEVER, repeat NEVER be without brakes with hydroboost. This is most important so I will say it again. you will NEVER be without brakes with hydroboost. You can be without with vacuum boosters but this cannot happen with Hboost.
TOFIC
 

toddz69

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SaddleUp said:
I don't know what the technical reference is for mine. It's the stock pump for a 90 Crown Vic/Grand Marquis. I will replace it with a saginaw one of these days though so i don't have to listen to it. Or better yet an Explorer Pump if I can find the front dress for one before then.

All the post '78 or so Ford plastic pumps are referred to as CII (or C2) pumps. The Explorer pumps are called C3 pumps.

Todd Z.
 

Sac '68 sport

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Orangevale
TOFIC said:
Do you need a Saginaw Pump?? NO but things are a lot better with it."
What do you mean by a lot better? Will the brakes just not stop as good, or will there be steering trouble, burnt out pumps?
Will these C-II pumps bolt up to the stock bracket?

"Will I love my hydroboosted Bronco YES, probably more that beer ( well, lets discuss that issue!!)
I ran this one by my cousin in BC. First he asked if you were from Quebec. I told him no, Alberta, and he seemed pretty shaken up by it all. You’d have thought you kicked his dog or something. All I could make out from his muttering was something about the North West Territories, frostbite, grizzly bears, and a trail of ketchup flavored Old Dutch?
 

slcpunk

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Messages
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Loc.
The WB, UTAH
anyone have a pic of a c3?

if the engine dies do you still have hydro assist brakes(or for how long after it dies?)
 

COBlu77

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Loc.
Arvada, CO
slcpunk said:
anyone have a pic of a c3?

if the engine dies do you still have hydro assist brakes(or for how long after it dies?)

You've got at least one or two good assists after the engine dies and then it's just like manual brakes. After the reserve is used up it's better than when the engine dies with a vacuum booster.

One thing I can share after having had Hydroboost with the stock front discs and rear drums, is that any flaw in your braking system will be magnified by the power of the hydrobooster. If you pull to one side now, you will really pull with hydroboost. I over torqued a front banjo bolt, the last time I changed the brakes, and the increase in line pressure made it leak where it hadn't leaked before.

The only other caution I would add is that H-boost takes a little getting used to. If your used to really giving your brakes a good firm hit when you have a panic stop, they will really lock up. Last week someone pulled out in front of me unexpectedly and my reaction was to hit the brakes firmly and turn away from the car. It resulted in my brakes locking up at the same time I had turned slightly to the left, which led to the whole Bronco diving to the left and going up on the left 2 wheels, momentarily (that will get your attention), and a little out of control fish tailing as I steered back into it. After cleaning my shorts, I reflected that I'd rather have too much braking power than too little and I'd better learn to have a softer foot on the brake.
 

SaddleUp

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slcpunk said:
anyone have a pic of a c3?

if the engine dies do you still have hydro assist brakes(or for how long after it dies?)
The inspection specifications call for 2 uses that are assisted however mot of us actually get 3. As mentioned above your left with manual brakes after the assist is gone which is a huge improvement over vacuum where you get one use after it dies and then have to fight the diaghram in the booster to use them.
 

TOFIC

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Sac '68 sport said:
I ran this one by my cousin in BC. First he asked if you were from Quebec. I told him no, Alberta, and he seemed pretty shaken up by it all. You’d have thought you kicked his dog or something. All I could make out from his muttering was something about the North West Territories, frostbite, grizzly bears, and a trail of ketchup flavored Old Dutch?
AAHH another person that is really wondering. He probably has not driven a hydroboosted vehicle.
The reason for the Saginaw pump is twofold.
one is the pump is a LOT quieter than any Ford pump. The whine is gone and that is worth the change!!
Two is the Saginaw pump can be "tuned". You can increase the volume of the pump and also increase the pressure by altering the spring on the valve. I do NOT recommend playing with the setting of a Saginaw pump. I tried it and the pump came apart in a spectacular fashion!! It took me several hours to clean up the PS fluid that was all over the place.
If you want the highest volume and pressure pump it is the one on the big GM diesel pickups.
Dual return negates the chance you will have back pressure problems with your hydroboost system.
Now as to the failure of the brakes with a hydroboosted system. I have one word for that NOT!!!
The way hydroboost is designed (a straight through model) means that once the boost is gone from the accummulator ( little can on side of unit) the brakes revert to manual brakes. You will get about 2 to 3 assisted stops before this happens so enjoy true power brakes with confidence.
TOFIC
 

Sac '68 sport

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Thanks for the clairification TOFIC. Hopefully I can fit one with my York bracket, cause I know what you mean by the noise.
I see the "Crown Vic Saginaw" over in the Tech section. Is that a Saginaw or one of these C-II's mentioned earlier in the thread?

My cousin was talking abuut the beer comment, not the brakes. I haven't managed to get him away from his Toyota pickup. Something about always starts, never brakes down, good mpg, or KPL, whatever it is you folks use up there. I keep asking him what the fun is in that but he's thick headed.
 

SaddleUp

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Sac '68 sport said:
Thanks for the clairification TOFIC. Hopefully I can fit one with my York bracket, cause I know what you mean by the noise.
I see the "Crown Vic Saginaw" over in the Tech section. Is that a Saginaw or one of these C-II's mentioned earlier in the thread?

My cousin was talking abuut the beer comment, not the brakes. I haven't managed to get him away from his Toyota pickup. Something about always starts, never brakes down, good mpg, or KPL, whatever it is you folks use up there. I keep asking him what the fun is in that but he's thick headed.
The tech article describes the mods used to replace the CII on a Crown Vic motor with a Saginaw from a Volvo. I've looked at it with interest because my front dress on my 5.8 is from the original 90 Crown Vic/Grand Marquis I had in there. (The 5.8 I bought didn't have the accessories or brackets with it)
 
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