"UPDATE" No fire to plug wires?

Blue71 · Nov 26, 2006

'69 w/ stock 302. Was driving and running fine. Next day...ruh, ruh, ruh. but wont start. I checked all wires and all good. I am getting fire from the coil to the distributor, but nothing to the plug wires. I then changed points and condenser. Still nothing, Changed rotor button and cap, Still nothing to the plugs....So I changed plugs too, and no fire to plugs still. Any ideas where to pin point it? Thanks Much,

Blue71

"UPDATE"
Ok...still no fire. I did change the coil to a new one, and replaced all the wires that go from the coil to the main wire, to the distributor, etc. I also cleaned all the connections even the ones under the dist. cap whether needed or not. I pulled the cap off and I can move the rotor button back and forth a tiny bit and get a spark when the points gap. I checked thru plug hole #1 and got the piston to the top. Checked under the cap and the rotor button was facing at #1 and #6 of where the wires attach on top of the dizzy. Haven't done any dwell stuff yet, and it got to dark to try and see where the TDC is on the balancer. Keep'em comin fellas. This thing is driving me nuts.

Thanks

Blue71

Doyle · Nov 26, 2006

Bump it over with the cap off and see if the rotor is turning, you may have a sheared pin in the dizzy drive gear.

Blue71 · Nov 26, 2006

Hey Doyle, Yep..forgot to mention that I checked that too and she spins. Keep'em commin.

Thanks ,

Blue71

SteveL · Nov 26, 2006

dirty or bad connection in the dizzy.

70_Steve · Nov 26, 2006

Blue71 said:
I am getting fire from the coil to the distributor, but nothing to the plug wires. I then changed points and condenser. Still nothing, Changed rotor button and cap, Still nothing to the plugs....So I changed plugs too, and no fire to plugs still.

When you say you're getting "fire" from the coil, I assume you mean you're getting a high voltage arc, like what you want to see at the plugs. How, exactly, did you check that?

With a new cap and rotor, the only way you could get spark at the coil wire, but not to the plugs, is if the rotor did not line up with any of the contacts inside the distributor cap when the coil generated the spark. This might happen if the ignition timing was seriously out of time.

Bump the engine over until the timing pointer is pointing directly at the TDC mark on the balancer. Remove the distributor cap, and make a mark on the outside of the distributor (where you will be able to see it when you put the cap back on) at the middle of the rotor. Put the distributor cap back on, and note where the mark you just made lines up with the connections for the spark plug wires. The mark should line up in the middle of the connection for #1 or #6 spark plug. If not, your ignition timing is way off.

Blue71 · Nov 30, 2006

Thanks for the tips fellas.

70_Steve, I pulled the coil wire from the top of the dist. cap and put it on my arm. Then cranked it. Pretty good shock to the forearm, but it works

Did the same with the plug. I also pulled a plug wire and stuck a new plug in the plug wire end and tried to get an arc off of the block. Nothing

Still workin on the rest as far as marking the timing. I'll let ya know. Thanks again.

Andy
Blue71

craigaria · Nov 30, 2006

Sounds like your coil might have a weak spark. If it was firing good it would have lit you up

I wouldn't suggest that test. My friend missed two weeks of work from getting hit by his coil.

WheelHorse · Nov 30, 2006

Ohm the coil. Ohm the coil wire.

Check connections at coil to make sure you are receiving full B+

Besure to check the ground wire that goes to the points.

Get yourself a DOM. Check Dwell as well if you like to tune for performance.

Blue71 · Dec 1, 2006

Ok...still no fire. I did change the coil to a new one, and replaced all the wires that go from the coil to the main wire, to the distributor, etc. I also cleaned all the connections even the ones under the dist. cap whether needed or not. I pulled the cap off and I can move the rotor button back and forth a tiny bit and get a spark when the points gap. I checked thru plug hole #1 and got the piston to the top. Checked under the cap and the rotor button was facing at #1 and #6 of where the wires attach on top of the dizzy. Haven't done any dwell stuff yet, and it got to dark to try and see where the TDC is on the balancer. Keep'em comin fellas. This thing is driving me nuts.

Thanks

Blue71

trailpsycho · Dec 1, 2006

Maybe you jumped a tooth on the timing chain. Has it ever been changed? How many miles on the motor? That might explain why it could be so out of phase on timing...yet still proving spark. Sorry, if thats not much help. Just something to consider as it is not that uncommon to have happen on an older motor.

Canuck · Dec 2, 2006

I agree psycho. The older timing gears were cheaply built,teflon teeth. I,ve stripped one once and popped the motor. no loss it was a 360 in a 71pick up

WheelHorse · Dec 2, 2006

Blue

point dwell should be @ 27 with a .21 points gap.

Are you sure that you have a full B+ at the coil positive WHILE you are cranking the engine over?

I have seen many falty ignition switches throw the best techs for loops. It has B+ when the key is on but flickers or is almost non-existent when cranking.

IF you have power, then you will need to follow up with ground. Install a test light inline with the ground side, usually better with a LED test light but see if the light flickers when you crank the engine. You can also ohm the negative wire by setting your DVOM on ohms and checking the ground side... make sure points are closed and one lead on the wire - (disconnected from the coil) and the other wire goes to the distributor case. Remember that the only ground is through the distributor so if the contact is crappy your ground will also be crappy. Then also check resistance from the distributor to block.

Better yet, run a test wire 12-14 gauge from the battery to the coil positive. Warning that your vehicle will not shut off until you remove the hot wire from the bat to the coil. If it starts then you are not getting B+ at the coil.

WheelHorse · Dec 4, 2006

any luck?

Blue71 · Dec 4, 2006

Wheelhorse,

Thanks for all the great info? Haven't had a chance to test it yet...hope to in a day or so and I will update. I appreciate you checking back to see if I got her going. Oh..might be a dumb questions, but when you say B+...what does that exactly stand for. Sorry.

Thanks again,

Blue71

bronko69er · Dec 4, 2006

I think wheelhorse meant V+ (12volts) since the B is next to the V. Type-O?

WheelHorse · Dec 4, 2006

B+ is referred to as Battery positive as labeled for ASE Master Certification and L1.

B+ is nice because when you are cranking you will not see 12V you will usually see 10-11V so that's why it is referred to as B+.

Vref is reference voltage, but not necessarily full battery as in a lot of newer cars have 5V ref signals for items such as TPS, MAP, MAF and so-on.

So, you want to run the hot wire to the coil positive first, your ignition does not need to be on, to rule out any ignition problems that may exist. IF your vehicle has spark than it is in the ignition circuit. If your vehicle does not have spark, then you have ruled out the positive side of things, you then need to look at the ground side.

bronko69er · Dec 5, 2006

Learn somthing new every day ;D

WheelHorse · Dec 5, 2006

It's not so easy to simply run a hot wire on a computer controlled car because Spanish Oak and the rest of them control the ground side.

Blue71 · Dec 5, 2006

Thanks for the info again. I have been starting the Bronco with one of the trigger starters from the soloniod. The dash and switch were actually out of the vehicle when I got it so I used the trigger start to run it and it worked great when putting a wire from the Battery "+" to the coil"+" so this would take my ignition switch out of the equation like you said right? still haven'tr gotten a chance to go t it again. Hopefully soon and I'll let ya know.

Thanks again.

Andy
Blue71

"UPDATE" No fire to plug wires?

Blue71

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Doyle

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SteveL

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