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My overheating journey never ends

Timmy390

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
5,613
Loc.
Conway, AR
Did they look at the head gaskets? With no tab sticking out on the D side I really think they're on backwards. There should be a tab sticking out on the D side with a gasket number showing.

Have them look and ask their opinion.

Tim
 
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mduenas

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
511
Loc.
Los Angeles
Did they look at the head gaskets? With no tab sticking out on the D side I really think they're on backwards. There should be a tab sticking out on the D side with a gasket number showing.

Have them look and ask their opinion.

Tim

There is a tab on the driver and passenger side front only. I did ask them, After they looked, they said they are pretty sure they are in properly. Here is no gasket number though, it is just a matte black tab. I will double check tomorrow.
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
mduenas, I'm saying it again,
You have a real problem that can't be fixed with special pulleys, water pumps, fans, or shrouds.
You need to quit listening to this rhetoric, and start pulling it apart.
When did it start overheating?
What did you do to it right before this problem started?
 

36Fan

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
243
mduenas, I'm saying it again,
You have a real problem that can't be fixed with special pulleys, water pumps, fans, or shrouds.
You need to quit listening to this rhetoric, and start pulling it apart.
When did it start overheating?
What did you do to it right before this problem started?

Read! He already stated when the problem started.
 

73azbronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
7,803
When I burped the coolant my hood was open and I couldn’t get past 167 unless I blocked flow to the radiator. It was good driving for about a week. But never did reach operating temp, then started to climb the next day. So may very well be hot air, but seems that would have been happening all along? I’m not familiar with hot air being trapped, so this would be new territory for me.

186 is what you say your thermostat is set at from one of the other 4 threads you have on same subject. BTW, try not to start new threads on similar issues. Yes, you asked about a spacer on one, a radiator on another, and fan on a third, but all revolve around overheating.:)

What does Fitech say they want? I'd say 195 to be safe.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for a motor to not reach operating temp in the summer at idle over time unless its 30 below zero, or stuck open Tstat. Or the motor is worn out. That is my experience, old worn out motors don't get hot until they do, then they get really hot.

What does a compression check of the motor tell you?

Have you removed the radiator cap and looked into the radiator fill neck while it warms up from cold, and watched the point where the water really starts to move around, right at Tstat opening? You can do this rad cap off, just be careful. DONT do this on a hot motor.
 
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72Sport

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
2,954
Overheating Journey

From your previous post:
" When I burped the coolant my hood was open and I couldn’t get past 167 unless I blocked flow to the radiator. It was good driving for about a week. But never did reach operating temp, then started to climb the next day. So may very well be hot air, but seems that would have been happening all along? (Not with the hood open) I’m not familiar with hot air being trapped, so this would be new territory for me."

This should start a riot: Every thermostat I have seen has a built in bleed dent in the flange of the thermostat including the high flow Robertshaw that I have in all my American vehicles. You can plug it up if you use too much silicone to provide a seal between the thermostat and the housing. You only need sealant to seal the gasket between the t housing and the intake manifold. If the thermostat doesn't have a drop of silicone on it the only thing you are doing is causing the engine to warm up slower and open at a few degrees warmer temperature. This little dent also constantly bleeds air out of the engine so it can go out the radiator cap when the cooling system is up to the cap pressure. When you look at your thermostat see how it fits in the housing especially it you have seepage of coolant around the thermostat gasket. The recess in the thermostat housing is too shallow so the housing clamps down on the thermostat rather that the gasket. Prior to assembly I have taken the t housing to a machine shop and cut the recess in the housing
deeper so the thermostat does not contact the intake manifold and interfere with the sealing of the gasket. I have never had to BURP my cooling system in the Bronco. I think this all stated from the import repair business where air is trapped in the engine etc.

"I’m not familiar with hot air being trapped, so this would be new territory for me."
When the Bronco is not moving the trapped air continues to move to the front of the radiator. The fan sucks it over the top of the radiator and back into the front of the radiator. If this goes on long enough it will cause your engine to overheat. When you are stuck in traffic the temperature will continue until until the Bronco begins to move. With the hood open this is not a problem. The solution is to stop the hot air flow over the top of the radiator and block most of the holes that allow to enter the engine compartment unless it goes through the radiator. This is why new cars can keep cool with electric fans. The hood has a rubber seal around it to keep the hot air from getting to the the front of the radiator. The cold air entering the engine compartment is forced to go through the radiator. Most new vehicles have rubber seals to allow only ambient air to enter the radiator.

Important info is in Bronco Driver Mag. Issue #12 Nov/Dec 2004 Pg 57.

Mistake: Pusher fans in front of the AC condenser were not Derale.
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
Read! He already stated when the problem started.

Well, let me rephrase then...
When did this overheating problem start? Was it a problem that just developed, or has it been a problem after your build?
This thread is so fragmented. I'm still looking for the start of this overheating problem, and can't find it.
 

73azbronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
7,803
One of your engine pictures I notice you do not have the air dam installed in front and on top of the core support. OEM it was a rubber flap. This might be how air is recycling into the radiator at a stop.

You have gone through so much, I hate to propose a test of taking the hood off and driving in stop and go and see if the same issue remains. If it does, then you have a water pump/water flow issue at idle, if not, you have an insufficient airflow issue at idle.

Also, blubuckaroo has a great question I could not find an answer in your five threads, how/when/why did this problem start?
 

toddz69

Sponsor/Vendor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Messages
10,096
One of your engine pictures I notice you do not have the air dam installed in front and on top of the core support. OEM it was a rubber flap. This might be how air is recycling into the radiator at a stop.

What air dam/rubber flap are you talking about? I don't remember anything like you describe on EBs. There were some flaps on top of the headlights but I don't think that's what you're referring to.

Todd Z.
 

gr8scott

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
1,827
Also, blubuckaroo has a great question I could not find an answer in your five threads, how/when/why did this problem start?

He did say in a previous post that it all started after WCB replaced his 351 with a rebuilt 302 w/AC new pulley system, etc.
He recently went to another bronco shop (ASC) and they determined it was running lean.
 
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mduenas

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
511
Loc.
Los Angeles
Let me break this down to clear confusion. Sorry for the multiple posts, I did not know that when you repost to a thread, it rises back to the top. So when I made each thread, it was in hopes that it would be seen, and not on the 30th page. For that, I apologize. After DirtDonk let me know of the situation, I posted each thread in the first post on this page.

Now for the back story of my truck:

I had a 351W, 3 speed and no A/C in my truck. I started having issues and would not stay cool no matter what (again a cooling issue) I had massive electrical issues, a bad clutch, a seized dana 20 and a handful of other issues with the truck.

I called around to different shops, asked question on the forum, of who to bring my truck to for work, since at this point it was more than I could handle, after wrenching on it trying to fix the issues for over a year. I settled on West Coast Broncos.

I brought my truck there. John, the owner told me that my previous 351W had been rebuilt a few times and the cylinder walls were too thin, so he suggest a recently rebuilt, in great condition 302 from another customer he had. I was told it had less than 15k miles on it and not a single issue. I swapped my block plus $600 for this new motor.

During my build I decided I wanted A/C and an automatic transmission with overdrive.

Do you see where this is going? Everything is from a fresh build, all at once.

Fast forward a year later, I have a rebuilt dana 20, new to me (rebuilt) 302, vintage air, 700r4, Centech wiring harness, new exhaust, my old radiator from my 351W (that I should have changed, but didn't want to spend the money), and a slew of other new things done to my truck.

I picked up my truck in January, the weather was colder, not nearly as warm as it is now. I picked the truck up about 125 miles from where I live. I drove it home, constantly moving, no traffic in mild weather, about 60 degrees.

For the week I had it, I noticed I could not get the dana 20 to shift to anything besides 2hi, I had issues with paint, a few electrical things and some other odds and ends. Again, I did not sit in traffic once and it was cool weather for the entire week. I spoke to John and decided to bring the truck back to West Coast Broncos.

A month later I picked the truck back up and again, drove 125 miles home. Along the drive I noticed I had vibration, (like driving over a rumble strip) anytime I was between 1800-2200rpms, then I actually got stuck in traffic. My temperature rose, and rose and rose until I pulled over and let it cool (around 240 degree range) When moving the truck was at 180-195 which I was comfortable with. I called and spoke to West Coast Broncos, there response was, it didn't overheat when we had it. I had my truck towed back to them, so they could look at it. A month later I am told to pick my truck up, and that they could not get it to overheat and it is perfect, nothing was or is wrong and that they don't notice the vibration. I start to think I am crazy. So again I pick up the truck. It vibrates the entire way home, no traffic.

The next week I am driving to work, I get stuck in traffic and it overheats. I call West Coast Broncos and the response is: If I want it fixed or looked at I have to pay for his time. That the vibration is not his issue, that it is Bowtie Overdrives issue. Since they did the torque converter and transmission. I call Bowtie Overdrive, they swear up and down they never ordered nor put in the torque converter. I call West coast Broncos and they tell me they didnt, so its not there problem, and I need to work on my truck myself, it will be good for me, to pull the transmission apart and figure out why its vibrating. And again, it didnt overheat when we had it, so not their problem. That they drove the sh*t out of it (his words) and not one thing was wrong. They drove it 35 miles according to the new Dakota digital I had installed.

So with no where else to turn, since the builder was not willing to help me, I turned to the forums.

With my logic, it was my radiator that was bad, since before on my old setup, I did have a blockage in it. So I assumed West Coast Broncos didn't clear the blockage and wanted a fresh, new start with a new radiator. I put the radiator on, and ran it for a bit, it was about 60 degrees and the temp would not get to operating temp. Wow I thought, this radiator is a cooling machine! I drove it for a few weeks with little hiccups, then the temp got to around 70 degrees, bam, it starts over heating again.

So I make another post, get some advice, follow that advice. That was to replace my thermostat. So I take out the thermostat, the truck has a 160T in it, it is getting stuck, as I can see the scrape marks on the barrel, I put it in boiling water, it opens after 160, and then doesn't close back down, it had to be pushed closed. So I listen to the advice and I put a 195T in it. After that I can not keep the engine cool.

So another post, (again not realizing I could have posted to the same thread) collective advice is that my 5 blade flex fan, and mangled plastic shroud are not working. So I listen to the group, I get a hayden 7 blade and try multiple shrouds to get one that fits.

That then brings us to this thread, on how it just doesn't end for me. I am then made aware that I could have kept the same post alive, and not a new pot every time, again, I apologize.

Flash forward after many attempts and listing to the advice of EVERYONE, I promise not entering a def ear. I am sometimes not able to try things immediately, as the truck is my daily driver and I work roughly 6-7 days a week, so late nights, or early mornings is when I can wrench on it.

Yesterday, I am driving the car in warm weather, and it refuses to stay under 230 - 235 when ever I stop. Climbs very quickly. While moving I was at 170. I just so happen to be working by a local bronco shop ASC Bronco in Venice. I called the owner David and asked if I can swing by, as I knew in 2 hours of LA traffic, I would not make it home. I get to his shop, they immediately pulled my plugs and did a compression test. It held 130 on each side of the motor, they then pulled multiple plugs and notice they are pink and have a gapping of around 22, and that they are as they said mustang winter plugs. They proceed to look at my fitech settings and the settings coincide with the color of the plugs, that I am running incredibly lean. Hence, they believe that is my problem. Today they are going to change and gap my plugs and check for a vacuum leak, recalibrate my fitech and take an overall look.

ASC looked at the tabs on my head gasket and said they look to be on properly, but we can pull the freeze plugs after we swap spark plugs if I still have an issue. The shroud and fan setup he said looks great. He did notice that my fitech fuel pump is leaking, which could result in less fuel being delivered than required.

So today, plugs will be changed and gapped, fitech will be retuned, and if possible fix the fuel pump, or I have to replace.

That is where I am at, I hope that clears any confusion I have created and for that I apologize. I am so grateful for everyones help and support in the community. I will keep you updated on what the results are today. If these steps don't solve the issue and we can not tell the orientation of the head gaskets from the freeze plugs, then we will either pull the motor apart to get to the head gaskets, or unfortunately I will have to sell the truck due to the cost of the work and time.

After waiting for my truck to be rebuilt for a year, I am saddened to still be dealing with large daily issues and just feel like I am banging my head against a wall repeatedly. This has not been the only issue, but one of the largest.

Thank you again for all your help and support.
 
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labuski

New Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2018
Messages
37
sounds good, let us know the results.

if it still doesn't cool drive around till its warmed up and then come home and let it sit let the temp rise. when it does open your hood, does it cool back down?
 

Rustytruck

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
I feel your pain. I would be totally frustrated too. I am glad your at ASC to get the fit tech straightened out. I think that will be a big help. Stick with it, its worth the effort and the problem will get resolved. Its tough on everyone when your rig is a daily driver. I remember when mine was a daily driver and when down it was the bus to work. Very frustrating times back then.

The truck running hot is a given, did it ever actually boil over, pop the coolant bottle and dump coolant all over the place?
 
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mduenas

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
511
Loc.
Los Angeles
I feel your pain. I would be totally frustrated too. I am glad your at ASC to get the fit tech straightened out. I think that will be a big help. Stick with it, its worth the effort and the problem will get resolved. Its tough on everyone when your rig is a daily driver. I remember when mine was a daily driver and when down it was the bus to work. Very frustrating times back then.

The truck running hot is a given, did it ever actually boil over, pop the coolant bottle and dump coolant all over the place?

The guys at ASC are so incredibly nice, I am kicking myself for not going there the first time ?:?

As for boiling over, I boiled out of the overflow and I also boiled out of my cap.
 

surfer-b

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
2,972
Hope you get the cooling issue figured out, as for the vibration I would bet it's the rear D-shaft and not the Tranny/torque converter. I had the same prob with mine when I added my 4R70W and it was the driveshaft, angle was too much at the t-case, I have 2.5" lift on my Bronco. I will post some pics tomorrow
 
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mduenas

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
511
Loc.
Los Angeles
Hope you get the cooling issue figured out, as for the vibration I would bet it's the rear D-shaft and not the Tranny/torque converter. I had the same prob with mine when I added my 4R70W and it was the driveshaft, angle was too much at the t-case, I have 2.5" lift on my Bronco. I will post some pics tomorrow

Thank you!

Thing is, it happens in neutral as well. So that’s why I’m led to believe is either torque Converter or harmonic balancer. But that’s a separate issue ha!
 

tirewater

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
1,040
Loc.
San Francisco Bay Area
Thank you!

Thing is, it happens in neutral as well. So that’s why I’m led to believe is either torque Converter or harmonic balancer. But that’s a separate issue ha!

The driveshaft still turns in neutral. Instead of being powered by the transfer case it's powered by the wheels.
 
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