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Rebuild: Bronco the Debilitated

904Bronco

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Starting a fresh drivetrain is almost a two person job...

Listening for noises, pouring fluids into something, fixing leaks, dealing with the smoke, checking gauges... etc.

Sorry to see you have damaged parts :(
 
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tirewater

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Starting a fresh drivetrain is almost a two person job...

Listening for noises, pouring fluids into something, fixing leaks, dealing with the smoke, checking gauges... etc.

Sorry to see you have damaged parts :(

Yeah, another set of hands would be nice. Nice to watch the engine, nice to help install, nice to help remove the transmission, and so on. :)

When I pulled the engine there was transmission fluid in the bell housing. Not much, but some. The bushing was likely already worn to some degree.

There are a bunch of possible reasons:

I could've damaged the bushing pulling the engine. I removed the flexplate/TC bolts, but I failed to push the torque converter back so it hung up on the flexplate by its threads.

The TC is reman'd, but it didn't "rattle" when I got it. There was a slight imbalance on start up, which went away. Possibly a TC issue.

Not enough lubricant on start up? Neither the seal or TC show any signs of wear. I would've expected the seal to have some damage if there wasn't enough fluid around it.
 
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tirewater

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Just some quick notes:

1. Called transmission shops for bench rebuild quotes for C4: $850-$1200
2. Separated transmission, adapter & transfer case
3. Removed flexplate, checked for warpage, reinstalled.
4. Wondered why holes were punched into either side of the bellhousing hump in the body.
 
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tirewater

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Some minor things:

1. Dropped transmission off at Transmission Professionals in Walnut Creek. I had called a lot of transmission shops in the area. While TP didn't have the lowest estimate they were knowledgeable about the C4 over the phone. The other option was Mostly Mustangs in Oakland, but they were busy for the next week.

2. Warrantied the torque converter. Autozone refunded the old and shipped me a new one. The benefit of a box parts store is that returns are generally easy. I didn't dig too deep into the old one to see if it had caused the oil pump bushing issue, so I can't say if Autozone would've foot some of the transmission rebuild. :)

3. Benefit of removing transmission is that I get to clean up the bell housing and transaxle.

Received a ported vacuum switch. Came with a guide for port vacuum switch colors!! Geez, can't express my annoyance enough of not knowing which PVS to get...they all say "fit your car" regardless of color. The guide has a date of 10/87...the switch itself looked that old.

Started cleaning up gauge wiring. For break in/temp running I installed secondary oil/water/voltage gauges along with a tach. Once I feel comfortable with the stock gauges I'll remove the add ons.

I'm really looking forward to cosmetic work, but will have to wait until more mechanical is in place.
 

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tirewater

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I dropped off the C4 adapter at the transmission shop to be cleaned. My C4 was finished & cleaned up. I'll pick it up on Monday when I get the adapter.

The friction material on the bands was cracked and starting to come off. I guess the silver lining of the spun oil pump bushing was that if the bands would've failed there would've been a bigger problem in the transmission.

Initial cleaning of the transfer case. The case was leaking quite a bit from the rear output shaft. The reason appeared to be lack of oring between the cogs & yoke.
 

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tirewater

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I had a brain fart. With the yokes removed the preload off the rear output shaft allowed it to have some axial play. Without thinking I thought, bad bearings! Forgetting about the preload...

I swiftly tore into the transfer case...

Did I really want to remove the intermediate shaft? Because I thought there was too much axial play on the rear output shaft...because I dumbly forgot the yoke would've set the preload on the bearings...

Anyway, the bearings all look fine. The thrust washers on the intermediate gear are worn though. I suppose I'll get a rebuild kit & return the reseal kit.
 

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tirewater

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Picked my transmission up yesterday. Total w/ taxes was ~$1000.00. Got a box of worn transmission parts with the deal.

Here's a picture of the fraying band.


I had the adapter cleaned at the transmission shops parts cleaner. It came back rusty. :) So I used phosphoric acid to clean off the rusty bits, primed and painted it. The gray is the paint color. :p

Went ahead and painted the transfer case parts as well.

A shot of engine clear coat applied for good measure.

The "dirt" on the transmission and bell housing doesn't want to come off. The transmission housing already spent time in the parts cleaner. I don't want to take a wire wheel to the aluminum, so brown it stays...for now.
 

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tirewater

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Heh, everything takes longer than expected. :p I'm beginning to understand why shops will have cars for months at a time.

Finished up the Dana 20.

The Assemblee Goo transmission assembly lube was a life saver in keeping the roller bearings in place. I was going to use a section of PVC pipe to hold the bearings in, but the assembly lube was firm enough that there were no problems holding the bearings using just the lube.

I imagine the original bearings could be used for virtually forever. There's no real load on them and if things are operating properly, they'll never see any extreme heat.

I do have a lot of backlash on my rear output shaft. That could be replaced, but the bearings were fine.
 

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englewoodcowboy

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So I used phosphoric acid to clean off the rusty bits, primed and painted it. The gray is the paint color. :p

Me thinks by your choice of words you are a fan of Wheeler Dealers... ;)


tirewater;2833294A said:
shot of engine clear coat applied for good measure.


Careful using the engine rattle can clear, I have stumbled onto a list of complaints of it turning yellow after a few heat cycles. Just FYI. Your progress looks fantastic!
 

Viperwolf1

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The "dirt" on the transmission and bell housing doesn't want to come off. The transmission housing already spent time in the parts cleaner. I don't want to take a wire wheel to the aluminum, so brown it stays...for now.

That's why they make aluminum colored paint.
 
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tirewater

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Me thinks by your choice of words you are a fan of Wheeler Dealers... ;)

I've seen a few episodes. :) Wish they'd tell how how much labor they put in for the 100 quid payoffs...

Careful using the engine rattle can clear, I have stumbled onto a list of complaints of it turning yellow after a few heat cycles. Just FYI. Your progress looks fantastic!

Luckily the parts will be underneath the car. I do realize that I shouldn't have used the clear coat on the transfer case until I was done assembling it. I can't "touch it up" after marking the paint by sliding it around on the table.
 
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tirewater

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That's why they make aluminum colored paint.

I'll likely paint the bell housing exterior, if anything to make it easier to clean. Once oil gets in the pores and imperfections it never comes out. I'd rather have paint in there than oil.

BTW (if you come back to this thread), what Torque Converter part # do you recommend?

I picked up the F200 flexplate from Transtar, the bolt pattern is slightly smaller than the torque converter. This is the same problem I had with the Pioneer FRA205 flexplate.

I can ream the holes a millimeter to get the needed clearance, but don't know how advisable that is.

The ATP Z-105 (sold at Monument Auto Parts) does fit the bolts holes - so I may try that.

I'll be rich in flexplates when this is finally done.
 

Viperwolf1

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I'll likely paint the bell housing exterior, if anything to make it easier to clean. Once oil gets in the pores and imperfections it never comes out. I'd rather have paint in there than oil.

BTW (if you come back to this thread), what Torque Converter part # do you recommend?

I picked up the F200 flexplate from Transtar, the bolt pattern is slightly smaller than the torque converter. This is the same problem I had with the Pioneer FRA205 flexplate.

I can ream the holes a millimeter to get the needed clearance, but don't know how advisable that is.

The ATP Z-105 (sold at Monument Auto Parts) does fit the bolts holes - so I may try that.

I'll be rich in flexplates when this is finally done.

I recommend a stock rebuilt converter for a nearly stock engine. Best deals I've gotten were directly from the rebuilder.

I'd say there's something funny with your converter studs if it doesn't fit multiple flexplates. I've never seen one that didn't slide right in. Bolt spacing on the converter needs to be exactly 11 7/16".
 
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tirewater

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I recommend a stock rebuilt converter for a nearly stock engine. Best deals I've gotten were directly from the rebuilder.

I'd say there's something funny with your converter studs if it doesn't fit multiple flexplates. I've never seen one that didn't slide right in. Bolt spacing on the converter needs to be exactly 11 7/16".

Supposedly the dacco f48 tc is the stock replacement. This is my 4th one, they all have 11.5" bolt spacing. The fra205 & f200 flexplates have smaller bolt spacing, 11 7/16, as you mention.

What TC # have you used?

The ATP version does have same bolt spacing as the dacco tc.

I never heard back from summit about their TC.

Anyway, in Joshua Tree this week, can't do anything now. :)
 
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tirewater

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I was reading your build (nice job by the way) and came across this. I always seem to have one extra threaded pipe plug so you now have me worried that I forgot to plug a hole!! My current 351 build I used the Summit brass kit and had one extra pipe plug.

Three threaded galleys in the back and the two water jacket plugs on the side. If you just replaced the rear ones, you'd have one left over.

I ended up threading the three front oil galleys as well.
 
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tirewater

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F48 is what I most commonly use.

Dacco lists the F48 having 11.5" bolt spacing. I'm wondering if this has changed from 11 7/16" recently. This explains the difference that I'm seeing.

Offset, is another issue entirely. The original 10.5" bolt spacing flexplate has nearly an 1" offset, but it uses a completely different torque converter.

I measured the offset from the crank face side of the flexplate to the TC side.

Transtar F200 = ~9/16"
Summit Brand = ~5/8"

A 1/16 inch difference, which is the difference in metal thickness between the two flexplates. I have the ATP Z105 showing up tomorrow, I'll measure that as well.

Regardless, the important measurement is the one between the flexplate & TC with transmission installed and TC pushed all the way back. As far as I can tell, you need at least 1/8" clearance.
 
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