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Sanderson Headers on the P

Tom Dummer

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Nov 8, 2003
Messages
957
Loc.
Scappoose, Or
On Bronco Huts' headers, the Sanderson directions clearly state that they do not require manifold gaskets. Really? Is anyone else running just the 1/8" bead of gasket sealer and no gasket?
 

DirtDonk

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There are several members here that said they did just what the instructions say and no problems yet Tom.
I'm guessing the soft aluminum gaskets would not cause any trouble all on their own, but don't remember anyone talking about having done it.

Remember that the stock original cast manifolds didn't even use gaskets. At least on some years. I have seen supposed originals with gaskets, but more often without. My own did not come with gaskets.
Just metal on metal.

Paul
 

Wyflyer

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Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
2,920
I did what the instructions said and used only silicon. It didn't work, it blew out. I called Bronco Hut and they told me they have to have gaskets or they'll leak. They acted surprised that my headers I bought from them did not include gaskets, but said they'd start including them. There were no gaskets included with my headers so I had to wait another week for gaskets, which gave me time to clean up the silicone mess and get new collector gaskets. This was about a year ago.
The headers don't port match and will leak without the gaskets.
 

DirtDonk

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Well there ya go. I now know of a member that didn't have luck doing it that way!

So what are some more details Wyflyer? All ports leaked? Just one or a few? Blew out immediately or took a little time?
Too bad the manufacturer is still calling for one thing if Bronco Hut is aware of it not working and recommending gaskets.
Seems like even if they were not going to include gaskets (which they do it sounds like), the Hut should start taking the factory instructions out so as not to confuzzle things.

Or did yours get drop-shipped from the manufacturer? The Hut woudn't have as much control over things if that was the case.

Sorry to hear you had an issue with yours. You been running the gaskets all this time without trouble then?

Paul
 

sykanr0ng

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DirtDonk

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We used to sell the Percy's. Not sure why we stopped a year or two ago.
Guess we decided the Remflex were better, more available, or just a better deal.

Paul
 

fishinman78

Contributor
Sr. Member
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Apr 28, 2017
Messages
420
I just received my Bronco hut headers and I purchased the gaskets Melissa recommended.
 

Wyflyer

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Well there ya go. I now know of a member that didn't have luck doing it that way!

So what are some more details Wyflyer? All ports leaked? Just one or a few? Blew out immediately or took a little time?
Too bad the manufacturer is still calling for one thing if Bronco Hut is aware of it not working and recommending gaskets.
Seems like even if they were not going to include gaskets (which they do it sounds like), the Hut should start taking the factory instructions out so as not to confuzzle things.

Or did yours get drop-shipped from the manufacturer? The Hut woudn't have as much control over things if that was the case.

Sorry to hear you had an issue with yours. You been running the gaskets all this time without trouble then?

Paul
I ordered them online through the site along with collector gaskets. I purchased the high heat silicone as recommended and installed without a gasket according to the instructions. I then built my entire exhaust starting at the collectors working back. When I started it up it had a exhaust leak out the bottom of the #1 port. I thought it was a bad weld. That's when i started making phone calls. They said no you have a port leak and need gaskets. We had some discussions about if they need gaskets on the P heads why they aren't included with the headers. They said if I had called in the order they would have told me that. %) I removed the headers and could see from the silicone staining where the bottom of the port only overlapped the header flange by only 1/8". I only had 1 port leak on startup but would've had more with time. I notice that the ad on their site now 'strongly recommends' buying the gaskets separately. https://broncohut.com/collections/engine/products/bronco-headers
So I waited a week for the gaskets to show up, cleaned everything up, reinstalled the headers with the new gaskets.
Adding the gaskets widened the total distance between the header collectors so I had to rebuild the stainless 2 into 1 downpipe Y to get it to mount up cleanly again. This of course required I buy a new set of collector gaskets.

I haven't finished the project yet so it hasn't been driven daily, but it starts and runs and drives and has about 2 hours on the engine. It hasn't leaked yet so i'd say the gasket is required, at least in my case.

When I bought the headers I assumed they were a direct port match like a normal manifold, with plenty of overlap of flange material all the way around the port. Not so, but i'm still happy with the headers and would do it again because they are the only one with a decent solution for P heads. But I do not have warm thoughts of the process it took to finally get everything gathered and installed & working. I had plenty of time to think about all this as I was tig welding my stainless Y pipe to fit again after installing gaskets:mad: As for why they don't include the gaskets with every set of headers, I dont' know, only Bronco Hut can answer that one.
 

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House

Minutia Militia
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2,394
Odd, mine came with two sets of gaskets.
One from Sanderson and a different "better" one from Bronco Hut...
 

DirtDonk

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Frustrating for sure.
I can understand why fancy gaskets (that could raise the kit price) are not automatically included though. Especially when there is a choice of more than one style/material available, perhaps at different price points as well.
Some people have their own preference of materials anyway, so being given a choice is the right way for Bronco Hut to do it I think. As long as you know about your choices!
And if Sanderson doesn't feel the need for gaskets still (maybe that method works better on the non-P heads?), I can see why they would not include gaskets when they ship them out. And extra cost again, for the Hut to open the boxes and put even the cheap old style gaskets in.

Unfortunately, the retail world being what it is, leaving it out keeps the initial advertised/perceived price down. These days, even a few dollars in the wrong direction sends people elsewhere to buy their product more often than we'd like.
Even in a case like this when there isn't much of a choice in headers for P-heads in Broncos, some will try to go another route if the "first glance" price goes up.

But it's too bad when the seller and the manufacturer are not on the same page.
We've stumbled along with that issue many times ourselves. Some of our own making, some out of our control.
Hopefully how fast these things get resolved ultimately helps lessen the bad taste for the customers/users-of-the-products.

Bummer you had to re-do your nice exhaust. Though I'm having a hard time seeing how the thickness of a gasket required that. I'm sure you're right of course (after all, you're right there doing it), but a fraction of an inch shift seems small enough to get away with. Was it down lower where they meet at the Y then? Or did you have to mess with things up near the frame as well?
I see you notched the frame it looks like? Is that to get the exhaust down low quicker? Transmission clearance issues, or just personal preference?
Very nice setup. Just trying to sneak more details out of you!

And last question (for now) is in what way were the ports skewed to the heads? Larger than the head port, or smaller? I'm guessing larger, as those P-head exhaust ports look smaller than the older ones. I've never measured (and have a set on the garage floor myself) but they do initially look kind of small. Guess Ford got the good breathing in a different way than just sheer size.
Since the Hut headers are not strictly for P-heads only, like other headers they need to fit all the normal Ford Windsor style heads. Wouldn't do to make them too small of course.
I'll be using the Hut headers someday myself, because I have P-heads going on my '71. I could cut up a set of ours and save money, but that's more work than I feel like, and I like their headers as well.
Hate to do things twice, but might still try them gasketless just to see. Sounds like I'm risking adding more work to my plate, but curiosity still gets the better of me sometimes.

Thanks. Good luck in the second round.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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Odd, mine came with two sets of gaskets.
One from Sanderson and a different "better" one from Bronco Hut...

Hmm, sounds like some communications going on in the background...
 

Wyflyer

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Apr 1, 2008
Messages
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Though I'm having a hard time seeing how the thickness of a gasket required that. I'm sure you're right of course (after all, you're right there doing it), but a fraction of an inch shift seems small enough to get away with. Was it down lower where they meet at the Y then? Or did you have to mess with things up near the frame as well?
I see you notched the frame it looks like? Is that to get the exhaust down low quicker? Transmission clearance issues, or just personal preference?
Very nice setup. Just trying to sneak more details out of you!

And last question (for now) is in what way were the ports skewed to the heads? Larger than the head port, or smaller? I'm guessing larger, as those P-head exhaust ports look smaller than the older ones. I've never measured (and have a set on the garage floor myself) but they do initially look kind of small. Guess Ford got the good breathing in a different way than just sheer size.

Thanks. Good luck in the second round.

Paul
I did not have to notch the frame, that's an optical illusion where I masked off the VIN to paint the frame. I agree that adding gaskets 'shouldn't' add enough thickness to make a difference on the crossover pipe, but on mine it did. Plus i'm anal and fussy.. You can see from the pics my 2 into 1 collector happens very quickly behind the passenger header, so the crossover assembly was very stiff stainless with zero flex or stretch in the pipe. Add 1/8" gasket thickness on each side, adds up to 1/4" which was enough to cause the passenger collector to no longer bolt up flat against the collector flange. Plus the driver side collector comes up from the bottom, the passenger side more from behind.. if that makes sense.. Spreading the headers apart by 1/8" gasket width on each side caused a total of 1/4" misalignment plus the faces were no longer parallel. I did not want to force it and tighten it up under tension then fight gaskets leaks for the rest of my life....
I shoud've sawed off that aluminum ear on the right side of the transmission, the collector flanges have to orient to miss rubbing.

The ports are difficult to describe perfectly. I grabbed a stock pic off the internet and marked it up to explain how I remember it. The ports of the BH headers are not an exact port match to the head ports. I drew it the way I remember it, the yellow area represents the shape and location of the interior of the header port. See the lower area where it barely overlaps the seal flange of the head? That's where the silicone sealant will blow out and leak. If the headers weren't coated so nicely one could build that area of the port up with a welder to give it more contact surface. With a gasket it creates something more substantial than silicone to fill that tiny overlap. That's how I remember it, if it wasn't already assembled I could use the bolt hole centers as a datum line and do some measuring.
 

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DirtDonk

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Thanks for the description. And yeah, a change up at the heads would have changed the "angle" of the dangle too. Which would maybe be the biggest change down at your Y. Makes sense.

Paul
 

Timmy390

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Jan 1, 2011
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My BH headers didn't come with gaskets. I used some stock gaskets for the year block/ application I had and they leaked like crazy. I also couldn't keep the header bolts tight.

Bought Mr Gasket brand dead soft aluminum gaskets and they seem to be leak free at this point. I also added Stage 8 locking bolts.

Tim
 

Wyflyer

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Apr 1, 2008
Messages
2,920
On Bronco Huts' headers, the Sanderson directions clearly state that they do not require manifold gaskets. Really? Is anyone else running just the 1/8" bead of gasket sealer and no gasket?

Did we answer your question? :eek:
 

fordguy

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Jan 23, 2005
Messages
5,497
Did we answer your question? :eek:

u got questions we got answers lol. it is disappointing that this is not a clear answer, when I bought mine, nothing was mentioned about gaskets. just seems like a recipe for bad customer experience
 

Wyflyer

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Messages
2,920
u got questions we got answers lol. it is disappointing that this is not a clear answer, when I bought mine, nothing was mentioned about gaskets. just seems like a recipe for bad customer experience

How did you solve yours? Gaskets or RTV silicone only?
 

DirtDonk

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Until the negative experiences were brought up here, I never had any reason to suspect it would not work as advertised, without gaskets. I've used stock cast-iron exhaust manifolds without gaskets for literally decades. With nary a leak, ever.
Even though these are fabbed headers, they still look to have pretty robust head pipe flanges and sealing surfaces.
Maybe the angle of the dangle (where they sit on the port) is more at fault here than the mating surface design itself?

I forgot to verify, but were yours also "P" heads too Wyflyer? Sounds like they were, but wanted to make sure.

I think I'll buy a set sooner rather than later, so I can play with them a bit before the final install.

Paul
 

jgrow

Jr. Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2001
Messages
105
I’ve been running them off ”p” heads for about 10,000 miles or a little over 1.5yrs. Installed with gasket as that’s how the Hut said to. Agree, Sanderson instructions are conflicting. No leaking just seem to have to tighten header bolts every few months. No offense to Bronco Hut but they’re custy service may be a little lacking as they’re stretched thin and seem to like to do things themselves. That all being said, I just bought another set to run off stock heads for now(with the idea I might go “p” heads down the road). Installed tonight with the gaskets Bronco Hut sold me stating they were better than some other product. Who knows if other gaskets aren’t as good but it does sound like the silicone method does not work. I’m no header geek but like these and like the versatility of running off different heads in case my project changes down the road.

Wyfler, from the few pics posted, that project is looking good. I definitely do not have the patience or attention to detail you do.
 
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