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Strange new noise and an odd power steering leak

Hinmaton

Full Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
590
A month ago I installed a new dual exhaust to fit the Duff ladder bar in my 74 trail rig (5.0L, NP435, D20, 4.10’s w/ Griz in 9”, 6.5 of combined lift and 37’s, ram assist, hydro assist drum-drum) it was supper tight but it sounds mean and doesn’t rattle.
Two weeks ago I installed the ladder bar and replaced the 3” body lift and body bushings, repaired a few mounts. Then put on a set of 38’s and limit straps in the rear for good measure.
Took it for a 30 minute test drive and noticed a new noise. A low tapping that almost sounded like a bad U Joint in the front shaft. Which was not engaged and the hubs were unlocked ( pulled over and checked). The noise was a wump wump wump noise that happened from a dead start and increased in frequency as the speed picked up than by 3rd gear it was gone. Or at least I couldn’t hear it.

When I got home I crawled underneath and couldn’t find anything loose, U Joints were old but in good shape. The only thing I could find was the exhaust, it would hit if I shook it hard enough. Maybe?
Been driving it for a week like this. There is no performance loss or vehicle surging. Just this noise at low speed under load. Although the noise picks up with speed, it’s fairly slow and deep. Not moving at the vibrations of the engine, closer to the speed of the drive shaft rotation, maybe even slower.
This afternoon I’d had enough and put some effort into trying to figure it out. Here is a video of me re-creating the noise in 1st gear with my foot hard on the brake. The higher the load the stronger the knock, you will also here the noise go away when I release the brake. I can feel it in the stick shift and the gas pedal, but much more so in the stick shift.
It won’t do it in neutral or with the clutch engaged. Only under load.
It also doesn’t seem to do it in reverse.
I engaged the hubs and put it in four high, this made it worse, particularly during low speed turning as the load increases.

Well crap I don’t know how to upload a video.....
link maybe?https://www.facebook.com/Hinmaton/videos/10216960344343692/


Well, when I stopped to disengage the hubs I noticed a massive power steering leak. I got it back to my garage and wiped and cleaned the power steering gear which was thoroughly coated, and went and grabbed a light. When I got one I noticed that fluid was sleeping out from under the sector shaft adjuster nut. ?????
cbe059206269f368a3e6850e1b60846e.jpg
ba79dcfb74d4ff3db95ae43198ffd1ca.jpg


Help-


Hinmaton





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Last edited:

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
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Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,355
Seen that leak many times before (but not lately) so someone will likely have a cure for you.
I don't know if there's a little o-ring or other type of seal under there, but if so, that's likely a simple fix.

The clicking, not so much...
Nasty noise. But I hear three levels. The whump whump you were talking about first, then a more high-pitched ticking sound, then that last nasty-ass combination!

But the good news (from way over hear anyway) is that the last one does sound like something hitting the body.
What I would do first of all (because I can't think of anything else yet) is to look closely behind the driver's side cylinder heat to see if anything at all is close to hitting the firewall. If so, you'll get all sorts of nasty noises.

Same goes for the transfer case shifter under the boot. Any floor shifters are suspect at this point.

Since you've had the body on and off (or at least loose) it's good to make sure nothing is touching.
The cure for the shifters touching the body is to notch the body. The cure for the firewall can be different things.

Good luck.

Paul
 
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Hinmaton

Hinmaton

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Oct 17, 2017
Messages
590
Based on the research I did last night, it does seem an often enough problem. Solutions run from a hairline crack in the cover to a loose nut. I do not think that there is an O-ring there, but I might try that. But man- it was a lot of oil coming out of there!

Great thought line- I do think the changing sound is coming from a single source. almost like at lower rpm the stroke is longer and hits harder and as the rpm increases the stroke shortens and quickens going from a wump wump to a tak tak tak. With the body being moved around on top of the frame, it's conceivable that a transmission clearance changed?
Is it possible I have a bad motor mount? Or transfer case mount?
what's the best way to check?

Would a failing clutch present similar?

thanks

Hinmaton
 
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Hinmaton

Hinmaton

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Oct 17, 2017
Messages
590
Sweet- oddly enough that’s the only tape I happen to have and was wondering...


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DirtDonk

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Messages
47,355
With the body being moved around on top of the frame, it's conceivable that a transmission clearance changed?

Definitely. More than you'd think, given just the small holes and properly seated mounts.

Is it possible I have a bad motor mount? Or transfer case mount?

Of course. Anything is possible. And motor mounts especially do wear out. They're considered a general wear item that should be replaced anytime the engine is out after 75k miles or so.
Or if they look worn out prematurely, they should be replaced even if the engine isn't coming out for any other reason anytime soon.

Some Ford V8 mounts are "pinned" so that when the rubber insulator finally deteriorates enough, or splits down the middle, the engine won't torque completely over and destroy too many other things on the way out.
But some are not pinned, and rely entirely on the rubber insulator to hold it in place. Once that type of mount splits, the engine can really do the rock-n-roll under the hood. Some cars will even damage the hood when the engine torques up!

what's the best way to check?

Couple of common ways. One would be to use a big prybar to put some english between the frame and the engine itself. If you can move it, the mount is compromised.
The other (and probably more common for EB's due to lack of clearance for prybars) would be to run the engine, put it in gear and hold on the brake while you push the throttle down slightly. With the hood up, you can see if the engine moves more than a fraction of an inch.

Some vehicles have relatively soft mounts that let the engine wiggle in place. That's ok, but in the case of our types of mount they're very tight. So really more than just a tiny amount of movement under torque is indicating at least a slightly compromised engine mount.

This test is obviously easier to do with an automatic transmission. When trying this with a manual trans, you need to either have a very good parking brake, or very good dexterity with your feet!;D

Would a failing clutch present similar?

Hmm, not likely I don't think. If you had a cracked flywheel maybe. Well, I suppose a broken spring or other part of the mechanism of a clutch cover (pressure plate) could make some odd noises. Never had that happen, but it's not unheard of.
You don't happen to have an old Centerforce clutch in there by any chance? Those springs and weights can make some noise. Usually rattling though, and not varying in frequency and amplitude like yours is.

But it can't hurt to check all avenues.
However, I'm a big fan of "cheap and easy fixes first" practices.;)

Paul
 
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Hinmaton

Hinmaton

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Oct 17, 2017
Messages
590
Just spent an hour crawling all over my Bronco.
Good news: the power steering leak was a loose sector shaft adjuster nut. I’m guessing when I adjusted it last, I just couldn’t get on it enough to lock it down. Moved stuff out of the way, and it’s locked down now. Seems to be holding...

Bad news:
I have no earthly idea what that noise is.
I blocked up the rear wheels and drove against the brakes, all but stalled it. Not a peep.
Hung out the door and gunned it while looking at the engine shake. Nothing.
I crawled under and tried to find anything that might be touching or close to touching.
Due to the 3” body lift there is tons of free space around the rear of the engine. It is clear around the shift tower and D20 sticks.
I poked and prodded the engine mounts and transfer case mounts.
I jacked up the cases and the bell housing to see if i could unweight and move them. But everything was nice and tight. I then stuck my hand everywhere it could fit to see if I could find anything loose or impinged.
I found nothing.

Due to the negative results from the free drive against brakes, it lead me to think that it maybe it’s related to the front wheels rolling? So I re-inspected the front drive shaft and all the steering bits. But again I couldn’t find anything of note. Felt through the engine bay looking for suspects and only found the loosely held down fuel filter. But I’ve blamed it on that thing twice now and keep zip tying it to different things with zero results.
So of course I still zip tied it up to something else.

So maybe the clutch? I think it’s just an aging LUK clutch or something. Nothing special. Maybe 5 years old?

But the free dry test? It should have done it.

Maybe it is the exhaust? Changes as it gets hotter? What else would change as the temperature increases?

Hinmaton
 

Speedrdr

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Just a stab in the dark, but you have a locker in the rear chunk, right? I do not have a locker and zero experience with them....but is it possible that there's something wrong in that area? From all the other suggestions that's the only area that wasn't addressed. I hope that's not it but worth looking at since the rear end DOES start slowly and increases in speed/frequency as it goes.

Randy
 

thegreatjustino

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15,624
Loc.
Stockton, CA
Are you using the correct lug nuts for your rims? I mismatched a set once and I pulled half the drive train apart looking for the cause of a bad vibration. Used the correct lug nuts for the rims I was running and the vibration went away.
 

PaveBronco

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Oct 30, 2012
Messages
912
Can you post some picks of the ladder bar setup. Maybe something there.
Ditto on the lug nuts also.
 
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Hinmaton

Hinmaton

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Oct 17, 2017
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590
These are the only photos of it I have on me.
af85a8370bfb02cfc6dab13594a8b99c.jpg
15b27e1b04672252c0ad1736e9c7772d.jpg


It’s quite possible that the rear locker has blown up, man I hope not.

The rims are ATX Slabs, and are lug centric. I used the lugs I had from my steelys. 60 degree cones.
ec19fa76748d9db73e46a62ce0220072.jpg
best photo I have of that. But worth a check.

I remembered that I had the mufflers tied to the body rather than the frame. I moved the rear of the body about an inch.
I readjusted last night. I’m hoping that was it.


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Hinmaton

Hinmaton

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What does a bad locker sound like?
I know what gears sound like. It’s not that.


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Hinmaton

Hinmaton

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Oct 17, 2017
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590
It was the exhaust!!!!
At least it didn’t make the noise during my short but intense test drive.

Thanks everyone

Hinmaton


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Hinmaton

Hinmaton

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Oct 17, 2017
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I think banging against the frame or similar?


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