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LUBR 2.5” Lift Help

heisenbergtsv

New Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2016
Messages
10
Loc.
Taos
Started my first EB in October….its already become a wonderful disease. Working with an all-original, uncut, ’73, 302, A/T with 118k original miles -- all of it’s life in the great state of New Mexico so very dry. Trying to preserve the original drive character of the vehicle, with subtle improvements.

Specifically I am looking at a 2.5 inch lift to improve stance, capability, and allow 30 or 31 LT’s. Looking for some LUBR advice on the following:
• Anybody ever experience compromises going from stock to 2.5 inch/11 leaf set-up? Looks to be an easy step.
• Progressive rate springs look like a good answer up front. Is it worth the trip to go with the long travel shock tower? (Basically WH system #3 vs system #16)
• Duff vs. Wild Horses? Anybody have a bad experience with either kit?
• How much tire can I get under the uncut EB with a 2.5” and NO body lift? 30x9.5 seems to be a no-brainer, but I hear people talk about a 31X9.5 (but I can’t find the tire size anywhere).
• Can I get away with stock brake lines, e-brake, and driveshafts when going stock to 2.5 inches? I hear different things.


Would love your coaching and advice on any of the above – Thanks

Heisenberg
 

DirtDonk

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Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,355
Hey, welcome to your already-found addiction, and now to CB.com as well!
Sounds like you're off to a good start. Here's my take on what you're asking:

Trying to preserve the original drive character of the vehicle, with subtle improvements.

Easy to do with what you're planning, and even making it better.

Specifically I am looking at a 2.5 inch lift to improve stance, capability, and allow 30 or 31 LT’s.

You can do most of that stock, so the idea of 2.5" of lift will put you in what I think is the sweet spot for an EB. Both in looks and handling/ride comfort.

Anybody ever experience compromises going from stock to 2.5 inch/11 leaf set-up? Looks to be an easy step.

It is easy, but yes you can experience some compromises. Any time you lift an EB you're going to change the steering geometry in a negative manner. How you like it is up to your individual tastes though. Many here don't make any corrections and find that it steers and handles just fine. While others don't like it and end up with the usual corrections of dropped pitman arms, trackbar brackets, adjustable draglinks and the like.

Progressive rate springs look like a good answer up front.

They are. Some still like the linear rate, and companies like BC sell that style and users like them. I personally prefer (even before I worked at WH) the variable rates and have been running them at different heights for more than 30 years.

Is it worth the trip to go with the long travel shock tower? (Basically WH system #3 vs system #16)

No. Unless you need or really want them that is. Are they cool and do they work as advertised? Definitely. Do most of us need them? Definitely not.
Describe again just exactly what you plan to do with your Bronco, and we can offer better advice in that department. But for 90% of new owners, save your money.
And don't tell Jim I said that!

Duff vs. Wild Horses? Anybody have a bad experience with either kit?

Again, nope? I don't think so anyway. Hard to go wrong with either. They are both slightly different, and both companies approach certain details differently, but both are high quality and both companies stand behind their products.
I've known the Duffs for going on 30 years too, and have worked at WH for almost 6 now I think? (time goes by so fast!) but most of us offer pretty good stuff. I like ours of course, but plenty of forum members here will tell you that ours and the Duff suspension products are good stuff.

How much tire can I get under the uncut EB with a 2.5” and NO body lift? 30x9.5 seems to be a no-brainer, but I hear people talk about a 31X9.5 (but I can’t find the tire size anywhere).

There are more 31x10.50's these days I think. The old 9.50's are like hen's teeth, but I do believe that there are still some out there.
And yes, you can fit some amazing things under EB's if you use the right backspacing on the right wheels. Nothing is more important when fitting these otherwise modest sized tires under that rear fender.

Can I get away with stock brake lines, e-brake, and driveshafts when going stock to 2.5 inches? I hear different things.

That's because every EB is different. Period. And every EB owner is different too.
You hear different answers because different owners approach their mods in different ways, and often achieve different results. Even if Broncos weren't different, the owners successes would still be!
For 2.5" of lift you can get away with stock on all counts you listed. However, the two soft brake lines to the axles "should" be part of the changes you make, especially if you're replacing the old ones anyway.
If you're not going off road and the biggest bump you're going to hit is a speed bump in a parking lot, then the stock lines are actually long enough. But my feeling is don't compromise in the area of brakes, so as soon as you think you need to replace lines, or if you plan any off-roading (even mild stuff) then always err to the side of caution and choose the longer version for lifts.
Your driveshafts don't need to be changed. If they do, you likely did something wrong.
The e-brake cables are more than long enough for up to 3.5" of lift with no off-roading. As soon as you start comparing wheel travel numbers with your fellow Eb'ers or Jeepers, get the longer cables because the stock ones WILL BE your limiting factor. They still work, to be sure. But they're shorter than optimum.

Best of luck! I know you'll get lots of good folks around here giving you good answers. Glad you're checking first though, rather than after the fact.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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47,355
Another thing that's handy to do ahead of time, while your truck is still drivable, is to get it on to an alignment rack and get a full printout of your current settings.
This way you know which C-bushings to order with your kit and whether you need to address any other issues.

By the way, got pics of this new rig of yours?
We love pics!

Paul
 

doghows72

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
2,036
Go with the WH lift, upgrade to the Bilstein shocks. Don't waste your time with extended mounts I don't think they will do you any good.
I did the WH kit and did not have to change any of my steering components. I did go with the extended brake lines just to be safe but didn't really need them. However your old ones could be 40plus years old so change them.
I did a one inch body lift at the same time I would recommend that highly. I can almost guarantee your body mounts are bad now.
I am running a 267x70x17" wheels and tire package on mine. Basically a 32x10x17" BFG KM'2.
You won't be disappointed!!
 

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hyghlndr

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Jan 19, 2009
Messages
5,020
Loc.
Hockessin, Delaware
The Wildhorses kit is good and a lot of people like it. For my preference I thought it was pretty soft and ended up doing front and rear sway bars. I really prefer the Duffs 2.5 lift kit I have on another Bronco for street driving.
 

Flintdog2011

New Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
47
Loc.
Newnan, Georgia
Either kit is going to work great. I have 31x10.5 tires under a 2 1/2 inch lift with a 1 inch body lift and no rubbing. Congrats on your bronco, your gonna love it!!
 

doghows72

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
2,036
Shipping could be a deciding factor for you as well. That's a lot of weight to move around.
 

jrwyant

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Jr. Member
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Jul 26, 2014
Messages
107
On my '77, with uncut rear fenders, I had rear fender rubbing with a 2.5" lift and 31x10.5r15 tires on 15x8 alloy rims. I could see a slight (superficial/cosmetic only) cut in a rear tire shoulder where it contacts the fender.

When it came time to replace my tires, I moved to 16x7 steel white-spoke wheels (US Wheel's Series 70, from Summit), with BFGoodrich A/T KO2 tires in 235/85r16. I'm happy with the results: the wheels have 1/4" more backspace (at 4") than the alloys they replaced (at 3.75"), and the wheels are an inch narrower so they tuck up in the fender without rubbing (but only just so.) The new combination is definately heavier than the alloys, but not noticeably so when driving (to me. I've read about other people going to heavier steel wheels and not liking the added weight, but I haven't noticed any differences given my stock carbed 302 and C4 drivetrain.)

To me, the 235/85R16 tires on 16x7 wheels maintained my ground clearance while avoiding rear fender interference (compared to changing wheels to a narrower 15" type along with a skinnier (and thus smaller-diameter tire.) Oh, and the 16" rims have much more room between the tie-rod-end and wheel, allowing the use of normal wheel weights, versus my 15x8 wheels which just barely worked with stick-on weights.
 

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DirtDonk

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Bronco Guru
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47,355
That's a great look with the white spokes there jrw. Super clean.
Saw the pics in the other thread too. Definitely helps going with larger diameters with the '76/'77 brakes. I like how it's tucked in just right. Luckily he at least has more diameter choices with his '73 (unless a brake swap), but the narrower wheel and/or more backspacing is just that much more a cleaner fit.

And with your buddy on guard in the driveway, you won't have anyone messing with them either! Love that first pic, where he appears to be in stealth mode checking out any potential sidewalk enemies from just behind the rear corner of the truck.;D

Paul
 
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heisenbergtsv

New Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2016
Messages
10
Loc.
Taos
Guys -- I am blown away by the number of and the quality of responses. Thank you. I will get some pictures up as soon as I get a bit further along. Just made appointment to media-blast 3 layers of unfortunate paint choices from PO over the past 35 years.

When completed, this Bronco will live on a Forrest Service road in NM that is 4X4-only half of the year due to snow-pack, and will occasionally get some time in a high-desert 2-track environment....but none of it extreme or a beat-down. Sounds like the experienced recommendation is the following:

- 2.5" WH System 3 with Bilsteins (assume there is a bias toward rebound here)
- 1" body
- replace brake-lines
- 31 X 10.5's (BFG's)

Any issues with the 31x10.5's on stock wheels? Paul had some concerns about backspace tuning.

I still don't understand which C-bushing to order -- 4 or 7 degrees. Any guidance on how to dial this in before ordering and experimenting?

Do I really need to upgrade U-bolt kit?


Its going to be a busy Christmas build season....my wife will get even with me.
 

DirtDonk

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Messages
47,355
Just made appointment to media-blast 3 layers of unfortunate paint choices from PO over the past 35 years.

Just be careful and make sure that the folks there either know what the heck they're doing, or just won't touch the hood, the top, or the grille areas of the truck. Many a Bronco has lost it's original sheet-metal due to improper use of a blaster.

When completed, this Bronco will live on a Forrest Service road in NM that is 4X4-only half of the year due to snow-pack, and will occasionally get some time in a high-desert 2-track environment....but none of it extreme or a beat-down.

- 2.5" WH System 3 with Bilsteins (assume there is a bias toward rebound here)

They actually use different types of dampening characteristics, which I don't pretend to understand technically. But the fact that they're dialed in like Mary Poppins (practically perfect in every way) means they just work.
Should be perfect for your intended use as you stated above.

Any issues with the 31x10.5's on stock wheels? Paul had some concerns about backspace tuning.

No problem on stock wheels if you find a place that will mount a 10" wide tire on a 5.5 or 6 inch wheel. Some will, some won't because it might not fall into the exact recommendations of the tire manufacturer.
My backspace concerns are only with non-stock wheels. With original stock stuff, you should be in pretty good shape.

I still don't understand which C-bushing to order -- 4 or 7 degrees. Any guidance on how to dial this in before ordering and experimenting?

Hence my recommendation to take it to an alignment shop to see what you have now. But in reality, if you're going to run power steering, just go with 7's like BroncoChicken said.

Do I really need to upgrade U-bolt kit?

Nope. Not for your intended use. But they are extremely high in the "cool factor" and start many a campfire or garage conversation.;)
With your intended uses, the only time you'll come close to needing a beefier u-bolt than the standard replacements is if you make a habit of that high-speed 2-track desert off-roading. Otherwise the standard 1/2" variety (but NOT the stock originals!) will suffice.
And you can save about 50 bucks or maybe more by opting to substitute the standards for the Extremes.

Pretty straightforward actually. When in doubt, go bigger on the C-bushings. Where you get into trouble with that rule of thumb is with 4.5" lift heights and taller, on certain EB's. Your early should be fine.

Paul
 

muskrat

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,503
welcome to the disease

Excellent choice, in my opinion, on a 2.5" lift. that is what I chose, and I think that is what the bronco should have looked like from the factory.

I found out doing my lift that every bronco is different. Some folks didn't need the adjustable track bar like it did. I needed 7 degree shims instead of the 4 degree, etc, etc.

It's a fun project and I still like to look back at the before and after pics to see the transformation that a simple lift provides.

I went with WH's lift, but Duff makes great stuff too.

Hope the lift goes well.

Dave
 

surfer-b

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Sep 7, 2006
Messages
2,972
To me, the 235/85R16 tires on 16x7 wheels maintained my ground clearance

JRW, Bronco looks good, perfect stance. This is the size tire I have on my 74, it is as close to the 33x9.50 that BFG use to make as I could find. I like the size an stance and the new BFG AT KO 2's really ride nice
 

rguest3

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Dec 13, 2012
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3,778
I prefer the WH 2 1/2" Suspension Kit with the Bilstein upgrade. Include the brake lines and adjustable Trac Bar and you are set.

A 31/10.50 (265/75/15) will fit great with the correct wheel. At 5.5" wide, the stock wheel, in my opinion, is too narrow for the 10.50 tire. A 15x7 with a 4" back spacing will fit PERFECT. Wheel Vintiques makes one that is a factory style replica. (Found at Summit Racing)

Good luck. We need pictures of the progress though.
 
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heisenbergtsv

New Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2016
Messages
10
Loc.
Taos
Paul, Dave BroncoChicken, JRW --

Thanks much for the advice. Seeking JRW's stance...its perfect (as noted -- this is what the Gen1 likely would have looked like if not for the bean counters and safety office). Parts ordered from WH today. Media blast (with care) scheduled for Monday. Should be fun.

The only thing I can't figure out is the need for an adjustable track bar....will get on rack and sort after build.
 

DirtDonk

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...The only thing I can't figure out is the need for an adjustable track bar....will get on rack and sort after build.

Easy to understand once you've spent some time under these things and see how they act and react.
Because the trackbar locates the axle under the frame, "supposedly" centered, as you change the ride height the location of the axle changes too. The trackbar is mounted to the frame in one place, so it literally swings the axle towards the driver's side when you lift the truck, or pushes it towards the passenger side when you lower the truck.
Even just 1/2" change will move the axle sideways. It's the nature of the beast even while driving, but if it's all set up correctly (as close to factory geometry as possible) you hardly notice it while driving.
A more compliant suspension will enhance this action because the suspension often moves more for a given input. At the same time, if you start from a point of inequity, it's just worse.

So if you lift the truck so the ride height is 2.5" higher, and the axle is moved towards the left side about an inch (maybe more? Never done the math) you're just starting off at a disadvantage.
An adjustable trackbar lets you bring it back to center and even fine tune better than the factory did. These EB frames are notorious for being imperfect (to say the least!) from the factory, so anything you do to bring it back to correctness is a good thing. Which is why you'll read a lot about dropped pitman arms, dropped trackbar brackets, adjustable draglinks and trackbars, and all sorts of other stuff to keep things "stock" even after you've started modifying it from stock.

Simple, right?;D
Wait for the pics that someone will hopefully post up, and it'll be even clearer than mud.

Paul
 

1971lubr

Sr. Member
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Mar 23, 2014
Messages
534
Loc.
Cape Coral, FL
Paul, its probably more like 2-3" for a 2.5 lift. I just installed mine, doing drivers side spring first. It shifted far enough that I couldn't even line the passenger side spring into the perch without releasing the track bar and shifting the axle over to line it back up. Once compressed the track bar went right back in, but the axel was easily 2-3" to the driver's side.

Ive seen claims that no new tb link is needed after a 2.5 lift, but there's no way im driving this without correcting that!
 
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