Front driveshaft thoughts

DirtDonk · Aug 1, 2017

Haven't read Steve's info yet, but am surprised Ford would describe how to cut and re-orient the steering yokes.

That said, you do NOT need to cut the c-pads off the axle tube. Your guy is only going to cut through the welds holding the steering yokes ("inner C's") and tap the top rearward to increase the caster.
What you do with the C-bushings is go with the lowest you can. In this case stick with 2° poly bushings. Rubber would be even better in some ways, at zero degrees of offset and more isolation between the axle and frame, but they are not very strong and have a tendency to spit out the sides under hard use.
If you're not planning any hard off-roading or high-vibration, high-speed dirt roads, then rubber would be fine. If in doubt, stick with 2 degree poly c-bushings.

If you know what your caster is currently (I forgot if we've talked about that) then factor in the change of going to the 2 degree bushings vs what's in there now, then rotate the yokes to achieve anywhere between 4.5 to 7 degrees positive caster. Shooting for about 5-6 degrees is a great middle of the road setting.

Paul

DirtDonk · Aug 1, 2017

To clarify, all you're doing here is separating the caster adjustment from the pinion angle.
When you're tilting the whole unit with C-bushings, you increase the caster, but also tilt your pinion down. In some cases, as we've found, too far.

So using the lowest size bushing you can get away with puts the pinion back up at a more normal angle. Then cutting and turning the yokes changes caster only.

Paul

73azbronco · Aug 1, 2017

Crud. I guess I'm going to be running into this issue soon.

The clocking on an NV4500 is one position only, any lower and yoke hits the mount, any higher and well it hits the body.

I think the problem is the 4 plus inch lift. Good to hear stock mounts helped, But I used those same mounts to help with the increased power in the stroker. Fix one issue, cause another... This is the front driveshaft, not used at high speeds right? I'm still thinking the higher angle more pricey shaft would be the answer. If not I guess I'm looking at rewelding my front end up as well. Questions why powedercoating isn't that great an idea?

Apogee · Aug 1, 2017

snipes243 said:
Well after talking to multiple driveshaft company's. it looks like I'm conning to cut and rotate the c's to get the best angle vs dumping a ton of money into a lost cause. Lucky the local fab shop has done one before and will only charge 200 bucks. So my question for you guys is what has everyone done before to get the right pinion angle did you just work with different c wedges until you got the right angle. Or did you cut the wedges off the axle as well?

Best practice IMO is to cut the rotate both the C's and the wedges. I would aim for 2 degree C-bushings, as that should give you some adjustability should you need it...I'm going to be doing this shortly on an F150 HP D44 for my rig, so I'm curious to see how yours turns out.

snipes243 · Aug 1, 2017

73azbronco said:
Crud. I guess I'm going to be running into this issue soon.

The clocking on an NV4500 is one position only, any lower and yoke hits the mount, any higher and well it hits the body.

I think the problem is the 4 plus inch lift. Good to hear stock mounts helped, But I used those same mounts to help with the increased power in the stroker. Fix one issue, cause another... This is the front driveshaft, not used at high speeds right? I'm still thinking the higher angle more pricey shaft would be the answer. If not I guess I'm looking at rewelding my front end up as well. Questions why powedercoating isn't that great an idea?

I would check first before you cut. My atlas. Is basically flat which is probally the problem but I don't want to change that I like the ground clearance.

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snipes243 · Aug 1, 2017

DirtDonk said:
To clarify, all you're doing here is separating the caster adjustment from the pinion angle.
When you're tilting the whole unit with C-bushings, you increase the caster, but also tilt your pinion down. In some cases, as we've found, too far.

So using the lowest size bushing you can get away with puts the pinion back up at a more normal angle. Then cutting and turning the yokes changes caster only.

Paul

Yeah my plan is to just get the pinion set using the bushing then have the castor set to 5 degrees. So tonight I started by trying out different bushing sets. So I currently have 4 degree bushings. Which gave me a 3.5 degree pinion angle. Tom woods recommend unneeded at least 10 degree to get the driveshaft angle. Well I got to thinking the cwedges rotate the pinion down. If you were to flip the bushings you rotate the pinion up. So I took a set of 7 degree bushing and flipped them. Well it worked pretty good. My ride height angle was 18 degree slope and max drop was 28.

Max drop is

I'm going to trying a set 2 bushing but I'm thinking the flipped 7 are going to be the ticket. Since the pinion is now pointed directly at the tcase. Lacking progress

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KyleQ · Aug 9, 2017

I ran all sorts of angle with my 1310 clearanced Tom Woods front drive shaft for years - I eventually blew it up with 43" tires, but I know I was on borrowed time with the 1310 setup.

I picked up flanges from NorthernDrivetrain and cut down a 2.5T Duece driveshaft - total cost is ~$300 for 1410 stuff.

Everything is painted after fitting and testing - I don't even bother lifting off the throttle when landing anymore.

snipes243 · Aug 9, 2017

KyleQ said:
I ran all sorts of angle with my 1310 clearanced Tom Woods front drive shaft for years - I eventually blew it up with 43" tires, but I know I was on borrowed time with the 1310 setup.

I picked up flanges from NorthernDrivetrain and cut down a 2.5T Duece driveshaft - total cost is ~$300 for 1410 stuff.

Everything is painted after fitting and testing - I don't even bother lifting off the throttle when landing anymore.

I had the inner c rotated so that should defiantly make the 1310 tom woods work.

On the 1410 do you see any vibration at speed? Cause we like to go fast haha;D

KyleQ · Aug 10, 2017

I didn't notice anything doing 60+ MPH - even with a ghetto welded front driveshaft that isn't perfectly smooth. Although, I'm on 43's at sub 5psi pressure on hand welded wheels with soft suspension - if there was something causing vibration, I'm not sure I would know what it is.

Crush · Aug 10, 2017

Hey snipes. There is one problem with flipping the c bushings. Now you will have very crappy steering. You introduced all kinds of castor the wrong way by flipping those c bushings. Now if you plan on rotating the ends of the axel tube to the correct degree then you should be ok but if you are going to leave it that way then it wont steer anywhere near correct

Crush · Aug 10, 2017

Hey 73az. That 4500 is prolly gonna be longer than the stock drivetrain. Indont know by how much but my m5od+zf adapter+d20 was 9" longer than stock. It really helped my front driveline angles being longer. I have 3.5" lift in front and with 7* bushings, stock radius arms, no drop brackets and my front shaft angle is perfect. The rear is off though. I need 6* shims to get that one right. The plus is now my tcase is dead center of the wheelbase. Both shafts are the same length and both made like a rear shaft (yes they are WOODIES).

snipes243 · Aug 17, 2017

Crush said:
Hey snipes. There is one problem with flipping the c bushings. Now you will have very crappy steering. You introduced all kinds of castor the wrong way by flipping those c bushings. Now if you plan on rotating the ends of the axel tube to the correct degree then you should be ok but if you are going to leave it that way then it wont steer anywhere near correct

Correct the axle inner C's where cut off and rotated to the correct castor. Now the hopefully the stock track bar fits

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snipes243 · Aug 17, 2017

KyleQ said:
I didn't notice anything doing 60+ MPH - even with a ghetto welded front driveshaft that isn't perfectly smooth. Although, I'm on 43's at sub 5psi pressure on hand welded wheels with soft suspension - if there was something causing vibration, I'm not sure I would know what it is.

Cool deal

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Front driveshaft thoughts

DirtDonk

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DirtDonk

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73azbronco

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Apogee

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snipes243

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KyleQ

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snipes243

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KyleQ

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Crush

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snipes243

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