"C" Bushings, Caster and flat towing

orange69 · Sep 10, 2006

Here's my problem and question's. I tried pulling my EB w/ a towbar and was not able to because everytime I turned the front tires would turn the opposite way.

So I talk to a few people and even have the alignment checked and they tell me that the caster is about 1/2 off. He mentions possibly installing spacers behind the spindle to make up the difference. Then another tech said that the C bushings could have been install backwards. So is there an easy way to tell if they were installed incorrectly? Would putting an angle finder on the steering knuckle or pinion and comparing it to another EB w/ a Dana 30 tell me anything? I don't mind swapping the bushings around, but would rather not have to take it all apart just to check. I installed a Duff 3.5 lift around 8 years ago and it seems to drive just fine. Granted I have never driven another EB so I don't have anything to compare it to.

Hunting season is fast approaching and would like to take my EB this time to elk camp.

Thanks in advance.

scsm76 · Sep 10, 2006

If you look at the sides of the bushings one side will be thicker than the other. In your case 3.5" lift the front bushing should be thin on top and thick on bottom the back would be the opposite thick on top and thin on bottom. Best place to tell is between the wedges and bushing. With your lift you should have 7* bushings.

broncnaz · Sep 10, 2006

Caster is not changed with a spacer behind the spindle that is to adjust camber. Your towing problem is more of the bronco being a old vehicle without a steering lock. to flat tow a bronco you need to tie the steering wheel down in both directions so it doesnt turn.

72Sport · Sep 10, 2006

Mine tows just fine without doing anything with the steering wheel. Caster is what makes the wheels go straight after you make a turn. Can you let go of the steering wheel after making a turn and have the wheels go straight? It should back to nearly perfectly straight without touching the wheel. Something loose in the front end like a tie rod ball joint will cause the same problem. Problem is probably related to not enough caster after doing the lift. I wouldn't tow one with a lift. You also should have auxillary brakes otherwise you are towing illegally in every state and Canada.

Find out what the caster is now in degrees. See if the bushings are installed right and bring back to factory specs. If you don't you may end up at a minimum with the Bronco laying on its side on the highway.

When towing take the tire pressure within 10psi if the maximum cold pressure as stated on the tire. It will tow much better.

00gyrhed · Sep 10, 2006

If you have to tie the steering wheel you shouldn't be flat towing the vehicle. It isn't safe. With proper caster it will follow you arround real nice.

I bought the caster adjustment for the next size lift. ie bushings for 5.5 lift for a 3.5. THis increase in caster will not be noticed if you have power steering. You can tollerate a lot more caster with power steering, in fact I prefer it. The steeering wheel returns to center much easier. If you can't tell from the sides pull one side apart and look at it. If they are right trhen go order a pair for the next higher height lift.

I would not take anything else to the alignment guy that wanted to shim your spindle to adjust caster.

scsm76 · Sep 11, 2006

If you flat tow with a steering wheel lock activated you will either brake the lock or the steering box. Some people tie the steerring wheel with a bungy cord but it needs to have proper caster to make it safe.

orange69 · Sep 11, 2006

Wow, thanks for all the replys. I haven't looked at the C bushing yet (worked late again) but last week I did replace a bad steering knuckle because the hole for the tie rod was enlarged. It seems to drive much better, doesn't wander as much. So maybe all my problems w/ trying to tow it w/ a towbar has to do w/ that bad steering knuckle. The rest of the tie rods are in good shape.

It does return to center very well, always has, especially now w/ that mini spool;D .

scsm76 · Sep 12, 2006

" I would not take anything else to the alignment guy that wanted to shim your spindle to adjust caster"
If he was refurring to eccentrics for the top ball joint that would be a legitamte way to fix caster, but it is only good for less than a degree.
They may have mentioned the camber shims for spindles since most broncos had poor camber. All three front axle housings I have owned needed them so it didin't look like this: \----/
Camber wouldn't effect towing though.

bigmuddy · Sep 12, 2006

My problem is finding the camber shims to stick behind the spindle. Most if not all have went to some kind of a camber shim that goes on the ball joint and not behind the spindle. If anybody knows where to get the old style spindle shims, I would take a few off your hands.

Ben

broncnaz · Sep 12, 2006

Try NAPA they have them on there website.
http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=0

orange69 · Sep 12, 2006

Here's the funny thing. I tried towing it w/ my old pickup and it didn't work. I got a new pickup and for some reason it worked for a little bit. By a little bit I mean I pulled it around town, maybe 8 miles round trip and it worked perfectly. So I think great it works now, but the next morning when I pulled out of my driveway to go wheelin' it started turning the wrong way again. So I thought maybe its my tires because they are bald. So I got new tires and tried it again and it still would not pull.

How important is it to have the tow bar exactly centered on the bronco? I have pulled other car/trucks w/ a homemade towbar that would clamp on to a bumper and pull just fine. And all I did was eyeball it; I didn't get a tape measure out and center it completely. The towbar I have now bolts to my custom bumper and I know its pretty close to perfectly centered but could that also contribute to my problems? I'd say it is less that 1/2 inch from center.

Thanks again for all your help.

broncnaz · Sep 12, 2006

might help to be as close to center as possible but 1/2" shouldnt make that much differance. You may want to recheck your toe in also maybe adjust it to the max recommended it will help keep the wheels straight. The only other thing I can tell you is to tie the steering wheel not super tight but just enough to hold it near center if you hit something hard enough to bust the steering box you've got bigger problems than just a steering box. But really I probably wouldnt flat tow it very far this way. Like suggested get more caster.

SaddleUp · Sep 12, 2006

72Sport said:
You also should have auxillary brakes otherwise you are towing illegally in every state and Canada.

Who told you that? Where are the statutes for each state that state this? If this is true then U-Haul is renting tow bars illegally which I really doubt.

Added: I just found this statute which details the requirements in Washington State for towbars. Nothing in it requires auxillary brakes.

From: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.44.070

RCW 46.44.070
Drawbar requirements — Trailer whipping or weaving — Towing flag.

The drawbar or other connection between vehicles in combination shall be of sufficient strength to hold the weight of the towed vehicle on any grade where operated. No trailer shall whip, weave or oscillate or fail to follow substantially in the course of the towing vehicle. When a disabled vehicle is being towed by means of bar, chain, rope, cable or similar means and the distance between the towed vehicle and the towing vehicle exceeds fifteen feet there shall be fastened on such connection in approximately the center thereof a white flag or cloth not less than twelve inches square.

bigmuddy · Sep 12, 2006

broncnaz I have tried several Napa's to buy them and yes they are still listed but unavailable.
Ben

scsm76 · Sep 13, 2006

buy from napa online if your local shop won't order them.
http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...ption=Camber+/+Caster+Shim+-+Front+Suspension

DirtDonk · Sep 13, 2006

Just out of curiosity orange69, what did you mean exactly in your first post about the caster being 1/2 off? Is it that it's only half a degree (not much) or fully half off, as in should be 4° but you have 2°? Like that?

Paul

72Sport · Sep 13, 2006

SaddleUp said:
Who told you that? Where are the statutes for each state that state this? If this is true then U-Haul is renting tow bars illegally which I really doubt.

Added: I just found this statute which details the requirements in Washington State for towbars. Nothing in it requires auxillary brakes.

From: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.44.070

RCW 46.44.070
Drawbar requirements — Trailer whipping or weaving — Towing flag.

The drawbar or other connection between vehicles in combination shall be of sufficient strength to hold the weight of the towed vehicle on any grade where operated. No trailer shall whip, weave or oscillate or fail to follow substantially in the course of the towing vehicle. When a disabled vehicle is being towed by means of bar, chain, rope, cable or similar means and the distance between the towed vehicle and the towing vehicle exceeds fifteen feet there shall be fastened on such connection in approximately the center thereof a white flag or cloth not less than twelve inches square.

Most all states either have a weight limit or a stopping distance requirement. You put 4500#-5000# behind it it and it increases stopping distance guaranteed. The information I have seen is in RV magazines and information supplied with the manufacturers of the auxillary brake units. You don't have to have one if you don't want one. I am sure the attorney for the other party will find the statute for you if you rearend someone. Down here they say something like ignorance of the law is no excuse.

California has a weight limit as do several other states and a Bronco is over the limit. I think it is 2500 lbs but I am not sure. Over 2500 pounds you need auxillary brakes and a breakaway device that will stop the towed vehicle if it separates from the tow vehicle.

I don't really care where the statutes are. U haul tow bars don't come with a car attached so I don't think they care. U haul also rents empty trailers in CA that can be loaded beyond the weight limit that don't have brakes.

Your neighbor to the North, Canada has a statute for auxillary brakes. I didn't look it up since I was not going to Canada. A friend who got travel information from Canada was told that brakes were necessary and it was illegal to tow without them so he and another friend rented dollies with brakes.

Look up such things as Even Brake or Brake Buddy and maybe they can direct you to each states statute. I don't really care. I just know it will decrease stopping distance and the breakaway device might keep me from totalling a Bronco if I ever have a problem.

orange69 · Sep 13, 2006

DirtDonk said:
Just out of curiosity orange69, what did you mean exactly in your first post about the caster being 1/2 off? Is it that it's only half a degree (not much) or fully half off, as in should be 4° but you have 2°? Like that?

Paul

I must have misunderstood him, but I thought he said it would take almost a 1/2" thick spacer behind the spindle. But I do know he was surprized to see how much it was off and also questioned the C bushing's.

scsm76 · Sep 13, 2006

towing weight limit without brakes in CA is 3500# I seem to remember some exceptions based on towing vehichle weight, could have been an ag exception though. The farmers can get a away with almost anything if they are within 50 miles of the farm.

72Sport · Sep 13, 2006

orange69 said:
I must have misunderstood him, but I thought he said it would take almost a 1/2" thick spacer behind the spindle. But I do know he was surprized to see how much it was off and also questioned the C bushing's.

I was told that they only make one size spacer for the 1/2 ton knuckle to change camber. They go between the knuckle and spindle. They are about .100" on the thick side and .040" on the thin side. Thick side goes down. I believe that my front end shop said mine was between O and 1/4 degree with the shims installed. The shims are for camber. Caster is adjusted by c bushings etc.

I paid $20 each for the shims at the front end shop. I am not sure if he can order more. I think I got the last two he had early this year.

"C" Bushings, Caster and flat towing

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