• Welcome to ClassicBroncos! - You are currently viewing the forums as a GUEST. To take advantage of all the site features, please take a moment to register. It's fast, simple and absolutely free. So please join our community today!
    If you have problems registering or can't log into your account, please contact Admin.

Swamping a 4 Turn Steering Box for a 6 Turn?

tabyers

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
379
Loc.
Indiana
Hello, I have an early 69 that came with a manual gear. It had a Lincoln town car (similar to F-150) conversion in it when I got it. I sourced some parts from a 77 along the way and when I got a new radiator, I swapped in the 77's 4 turn. Its felt jittery to me ever since. Its been a long tern project forever so its hard to compare eras but its been absolutly sorted and obsessed over and I'm confident its the best, steering wise, that I can get it. So... my question is, can anyone talk to me about 4 vs. 6 turn and If someone has went from one to the other or perhaps more likely, they have two trucks, one with the 4 and one with the 6? my truck was a 3.5" WH with T style and 31" Boggers and the "150" gear when I remember it steering the best. It went through a period of 77 4 turn with Y style with 33" BFG and 31 Swampers. It now has 2.5" WH w/Bilsteins, WH Y to T adjustable, caster is good, alignment good, 31 BFG. It needs a front sway and will get one later on. Anyhow, just to let everyone know that I think I've have a bunch of different experiences with different set ups on the same truck and everything feels great except it just seems more nervous or jittery than I remember it being way back when. Thanks for reading
 

JWMcCrary

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Messages
5,001
I have one with a 4 turn and another with a 6 turn. They both have large tires and ram assist, the ram assist keeps it from being "jittery" as you described. I haven't noticed enough difference between the 2 that I would change either one.
 

pcf_mark

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
3,574
I asked about a 4 turn swap recently at a local Bronco shop and they said it would be twitchy and did not recommend it. Sounds like that matches your experience.
 

PaveBronco

Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
912
I went from a 6 to a 4 turn, did the 4x4x2 swap with ram assist, and its twitchy, have to concentrate, especially at freeway speeds. Many don't have issues so I think it could be my caster, haven't measured it yet. Playing with tire pressure helped.
Really thinking I need a front sway bar, and I know I need better front shocks.
 
OP
OP
tabyers

tabyers

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
379
Loc.
Indiana
Before I improved my caster the wheel was too easy to turn and did not center well but after it stiffened up a bit and centers better but it didn’t really improve the ultra attentive careful with the input type handling. I know that I’m limited by the physical characteristics of the truck but I really did enjoy the way it tracked and steered better with 3.5 coils, cut down drag link and 31x12.50 boggers. Everything I’ve done since then has been an attempt to improve and ride wise I have but I’m not so sure about this starting set up. Having a hard time finding the missing piece to the puzzle. I guess I can go back to bad caster and bias plies but how can that be the answer! I’m in bad need of a sway because shifting from 3 to 4 under hard acceleration at about 30 yields wild body roll but I’m not sure it will make the how thing calm down... or will it? I haven’t looked into the ram assist stuff, never thought I needed it but I’ll give it some research. Is everybody running their pressures lower or higher? I’ve tried 25-32 with no change, but I don’t know what I’m doing.
 

Yeller

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
5,885
Loc.
Rogers County Oklahoma
You said something that sets off my "poor handling bell" "body roll when shifting". What shocks are you running and how are they oriented? Are they like stock or have you done something else? I build a lot of custom suspensions and those are issues that point to shock valving and or shock placement. Which hugely agrivate poor steering feel. Sway bars help bandaid the real issue.
 
OP
OP
tabyers

tabyers

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
379
Loc.
Indiana
Wild Horses premium 2.5" suspension with Bilstein 5100 in the stock spots. Also, its very possible that I'm a crappy driver.
 

Yeller

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
5,885
Loc.
Rogers County Oklahoma
Well that can be checked off as good, so something to not worry abou...... Usually when I hear that description the rear shocks are canted on the inside of the frame, not poking at anyone with that set up and loves it, but poor handling is a trade off because the shocks are very ineffective at dampening mounted like that.

Also remember these are never going to drive like a modern car, they have body lean in corners, dive when you press the brakes and nose up when you accelerate. And what is perfectly normal and handles great for one maybe death defying scary for another. It's all in what you feel comfortable with.

Me mine has a 2-3/4 turn box 37's and custom links suspension with coils all around and I think it's about perfect and feel comfortable with anyone driving it, but someone else might say, "how do you drive that death trap?" And in reality I'd compair its handling to a cushy late model super duty.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,355
One thing to add to all your comments would be what size steering wheel you have.
I have a 6-turn box and a small wheel and it steers pretty good. I'm still going to try the 4-turn box I have though. Still curious about it myself.
I've always thought it "can" be twitchy, but remember that the stock '76/'77 box was 4.5 turns or so, and I don't remember anyone who started off with one of those complaining about it's steering.
But they also had really big steering wheels still. So that may have made all the difference.

I said mine steers pretty good, and it does. But there is no doubt about the change the small steering wheel made.

Paul
 
OP
OP
tabyers

tabyers

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
379
Loc.
Indiana
Yeah I’ve had the same truck for 20yrs and know it’s a death trap. Can you guys believe they went to the moon with this stuff? Anyhow, yeah I have a stock large 69 wheel still. I’ve heard that they might not be the greatest combo. I’d rather change the box than the wheel though.
 

Local Boy

Full Member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
191
Loc.
Mililani, Hawaii
I have both boxes (4 turn and 6 turn). I use a 13 inch steering wheel, 35" tires, 5.5' lift
I've always ran 6 turn boxes but decided to try out the 4 turn when I was rebuilding my front end...
I had it on the road for about 30 min. and quickly decided to turn around and head for home... For me, it just was too twitchy, and made my driving experience stressful = Not Good!
I actually did not like the feeling of it immediately pulling out of my driveway, and driving through my neighborhood...But I wanted to give me some time to get used to it..and see if it got better... NOPE!
"To each his own" ...some like it ...but I don't...
Aloha
 
Last edited:

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,355
Thanks LB. That's about as direct a comparison as there is available.
I know some opinions and likes and dislikes vary, but it's good info.

Thanks

Paul
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,355
I forgot to add though, that obviously with 5.5" of lift and 35's, not everyone is going to have the same feel as yours.
Did you do any custom steering fab-work to yours, or just the usual bolt-ons in the form of pitman arm and trackbar drop/riser?
Anything else, like going with TRO or other linkage?

Paul
 

thirdtime

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
252
I just had my 6 turn converted to a 4 turn on one of mine and really liked it. I did it because I liked the feel of my 77. I am running a 13" wheel on it as well. I did have them change the valving on it (stiffened it dramatically) and now it is takes a full hand on the wheel to turn it. I lost the 1 finger turn capability but its makes it road manners nice and turns quick.
 

Local Boy

Full Member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
191
Loc.
Mililani, Hawaii
Hey Paul,

Yeah, mine is a little different from most...;D

Drop pitman arm
Adjustable Track bar (WH)
Track bar riser (WH)
1.5 x .250 DOM Tie rod & Drag link with 3/4 Heims (self built)
Knuckles and pitman arm reamed for 3/4 aircraft grade bolts

Aloha
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
tabyers

tabyers

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
379
Loc.
Indiana
I just had my 6 turn converted to a 4 turn on one of mine and really liked it. I did it because I liked the feel of my 77. I am running a 13" wheel on it as well. I did have them change the valving on it (stiffened it dramatically) and now it is takes a full hand on the wheel to turn it. I lost the 1 finger turn capability but its makes it road manners nice and turns quick.

Where did you have the changes made? That sounds like the thing to do. I think I’d like to try both, switch to a 6 turn and stiffen it up a touch.
 

thirdtime

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
252
Where did you have the changes made? That sounds like the thing to do. I think I’d like to try both, switch to a 6 turn and stiffen it up a touch.

I sent this box to AGR/Steerco in Texas. I talked to Josh the owner who is a Bronco guy himself. He valved mine with a 202? I think. Its a little stiff for a 13 inch wheel but I think it will be perfect for a 14 inch wheel. He can give you your options. In all fairness I have also used West Texas with great results as well. I have just never had them do any valve changes.
 

68ford

Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Messages
2,710
I run a less than 4 turn lock to lock box from PSC and a 1.5 to 1 over drive at the fire wall making it about 2.5 turns total lock to lock. I'm full width and low to the ground and very heavy so not really a normal comparison. Draglink and track bar almost level at ride height and I have about 10 degrees caster so when the suspension droops it does not go negative. My EB drives like a modern sports car and very stable at all speeds to over 100mph.
I'm guessing your guys caster is a big player it twitchy and unstable feeling.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,355
Maybe not a normal comparison 68, but still great info to add to the discussion.
Are details of the steering setup in your "pre-runner build" thread?

Thanks

Paul
 

68ford

Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Messages
2,710
Possibly, it's a 3.something turn new box from PSC, small ram assist and a coleman overdrive. The steering is pretty basic eb for the most part. It's just very "flat" because I'm so low to the ground. And like I said lots of caster haha
 
Top