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4 link, ORI's, narrowed D60w/only 2.5" lift, 5"+WB stretch, 2" floor lower, P/S....,
- Thread starter nvrstuk
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OP
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Da ja vu... wasn't I doing this 3 yrs ago??
Measuring to see how close the upper 4 link brackets are on my current 914 and what I'm hoping to use on my 14bolt
Preliminary measurements show Im within 1/4".
Not a good pic but I'm trying to determine the height of my upper links relative to the centerline of my axle. Built it last time with everything barely clearing on full compression and articulation. I was hoping this beast would fit... whew...so far so good.
Nitrogen is out of the ORI's, brake lines are disconnected...
Measuring to see how close the upper 4 link brackets are on my current 914 and what I'm hoping to use on my 14bolt
Preliminary measurements show Im within 1/4".
Not a good pic but I'm trying to determine the height of my upper links relative to the centerline of my axle. Built it last time with everything barely clearing on full compression and articulation. I was hoping this beast would fit... whew...so far so good.
Nitrogen is out of the ORI's, brake lines are disconnected...
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OP
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Steve, I should have gone to a 14 bolt 25 yrs ago...would have saved a lot of time, effort and $. I just remember seeing them hanging down so far, everybody said they weighed 500#'s (like D60's). All that can be overcome...
They are massive like you said!
They are massive like you said!
They are all of the above but dirt simple and strong. The pinion height isn't too bad either. I was looking at doing a 9" in mine at one point but knew a high 9 wasn't a good option for me and by the time I did a spidertrax housing, full float ends and hubs there was really no advantage, lower pinion and way more dollars. Especially since it was built and installed. I didn't shave it when I put it in because it was built, the cover wasn't leaking why mess with good things
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I slather everything in anti seize, hate that problem. Doesn’t always stop it but sure helps
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The Turtle made 3 steps forward and at least 2 back today! Turtle speed is my speed. lol
Anyway, got the trans in but it doesn't fit. I can use it for figuring 14 bolt pinion ht, t-case ht, frt DS angle and location/design of rear crossmember.
My old "914" rear is out as you saw one of the upper link bolts was frozen... not too bad. Only took a little over an hour... lol
Back to the trans. I'm using Perf Auto 6r80 to SBF adapter and their TC adapter kit because a custom 2200 rpm stall TC is $2500 bucks or more... HA, ain't doing that!
So I trial fit the TC to the flex plate with the button adapter that fits in the end of the crank like a pilot bushing and centers/locates the TC. Fit fine, tight but fit.
So this afternoon, using the kit with new dowel pins and having the 4 TC studs sticking thru the flexplate the trans will NOT slide on the last 3/8". Yes, the gaps are the same all the way around the bellhousing so it's going on square, the dowel pins are engaged 85% of the way...just wont' go that last 3/8".
Pulled the trans, pulled the bushing insert that the TC button fits into hard to remove-definitely a exact or slight press fit, tried sliding the trans in...bam, just like hundreds of others have. So I will call Perf Auto Monday and ask whats up. I don't want that TC to not have some kind of centering system in place. 4 little TC studs isn't enough...
Other issue. When the trans is bolted up tight agains the block adapter WITH the TC slid back all the way (checked Perf Auto specs) the TC has maybe, maybe 1/8" to slide forward when the nuts are tightened... not enough... Thoughts?
I'm going to mock up lower links, upper links, all that stuff on the 14 bolt so I can see if it all fits as good as what came out.
Forst pic is the button that fits in the end of the crank. No burr or indication the TC wasnt aligned.
Pic quality when downloaded here was lowered so you cant3see the barely visible 1/8" gap between the stud and the flexplate (w/o nuts sucking it up tight)
Anyway, got the trans in but it doesn't fit. I can use it for figuring 14 bolt pinion ht, t-case ht, frt DS angle and location/design of rear crossmember.
My old "914" rear is out as you saw one of the upper link bolts was frozen... not too bad. Only took a little over an hour... lol
Back to the trans. I'm using Perf Auto 6r80 to SBF adapter and their TC adapter kit because a custom 2200 rpm stall TC is $2500 bucks or more... HA, ain't doing that!
So I trial fit the TC to the flex plate with the button adapter that fits in the end of the crank like a pilot bushing and centers/locates the TC. Fit fine, tight but fit.
So this afternoon, using the kit with new dowel pins and having the 4 TC studs sticking thru the flexplate the trans will NOT slide on the last 3/8". Yes, the gaps are the same all the way around the bellhousing so it's going on square, the dowel pins are engaged 85% of the way...just wont' go that last 3/8".
Pulled the trans, pulled the bushing insert that the TC button fits into hard to remove-definitely a exact or slight press fit, tried sliding the trans in...bam, just like hundreds of others have. So I will call Perf Auto Monday and ask whats up. I don't want that TC to not have some kind of centering system in place. 4 little TC studs isn't enough...
Other issue. When the trans is bolted up tight agains the block adapter WITH the TC slid back all the way (checked Perf Auto specs) the TC has maybe, maybe 1/8" to slide forward when the nuts are tightened... not enough... Thoughts?
I'm going to mock up lower links, upper links, all that stuff on the 14 bolt so I can see if it all fits as good as what came out.
Forst pic is the button that fits in the end of the crank. No burr or indication the TC wasnt aligned.
Pic quality when downloaded here was lowered so you cant3see the barely visible 1/8" gap between the stud and the flexplate (w/o nuts sucking it up tight)
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Time to stuff the 14 bolt in so I can determine some angles and see if my plywood geometry from last November will work!
Today I will try getting upper 4 link mounts with truss in place.
I bought a pinion guard that is designed to tie into the truss to add support for the upper mounts and also to prevent the axle tubes from spinning (probably really important).
This is what it fit like!!
Today I will try getting upper 4 link mounts with truss in place.
I bought a pinion guard that is designed to tie into the truss to add support for the upper mounts and also to prevent the axle tubes from spinning (probably really important).
This is what it fit like!!
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...This is why I build everything....grrrr. Same companies brackets.
If I wanted to mod everything I would have built it from scratch like I usually (always) do.
Thought I'd be saving time and shoulder wear and tear...nope. dang...
Bunch of fitting and it fits as it should... got everything mocked up, burning in slowly
If I wanted to mod everything I would have built it from scratch like I usually (always) do.
Thought I'd be saving time and shoulder wear and tear...nope. dang...
Bunch of fitting and it fits as it should... got everything mocked up, burning in slowly
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Does that truss bracket have anything that ties to the cover side of the center section? Either to the cover or welder to the housing, it will need it.
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Nothing that ties to the cover however not shown in any pics yet are 2 more pcs that weld to the sides of the truss and weld to the axle tubes. I'll get a pic when I get out to the shop... relaxed start morning today
The upper truss has three bolts that attach it to the pinion guard and this distributes .some of the forward back loading . I'll walk out and get a couple pics of the additional brackets that weld on the sides and to the axle tubes...
Here ya go. You can see where I just placed the additional support/contact brace on the right side in this pic.
The pic with the area circled in yellow shows where the three bolts are that allows the welded strip of 5/16" bar (which is welded to the upper truss) to be unbolted so the pinion guard pc can be unbolted.
The upper truss has three bolts that attach it to the pinion guard and this distributes .some of the forward back loading . I'll walk out and get a couple pics of the additional brackets that weld on the sides and to the axle tubes...
Here ya go. You can see where I just placed the additional support/contact brace on the right side in this pic.
The pic with the area circled in yellow shows where the three bolts are that allows the welded strip of 5/16" bar (which is welded to the upper truss) to be unbolted so the pinion guard pc can be unbolted.
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I have room on the back side of this butt weld (where I had to remove appr 1" to achieve the correct angles for fitment) to add some beef since all the loading would be on the butt weld and the now much shorter tabs (in the second pic) on each side. In the second pic with the 2 yellow circles behind that bracket I will weld in a 2 pcs of 1/4" plate to stiffen the tab that is bent down since it is now taking most of the stress
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I thought this might be good info for others looking to put a 14 bolt in if they are trying to spec out a specific WMS.
Below are several pics showing the hub width differences allowing multiple WMS widths when using the same axle housing assembly. (Update) "Most" hubs, bearings, axles, seals, internal components interchange but brake rotor, caliper and more important, caliper bracket location vary with each hub... and I have no idea about drum fitment issues and who in their right mind would want to use 30# drums on each side when you can use discs instead- right??
All the brake rotor issues are easily solved by calling Shawn at Lugnut4x4 who sells brake systems or components specifically for D60's, 14 bolts and other popular axle swaps. Ruff Stuff has a few options but Shawn can sell you everything you need.. He knows his stuff and his parts are high quality and cheaper than local sourcing...anyway, he can tell you which rotors and brackets can or will be needed to use with different hubs.
I chose weld on calipers again because I'm mixing axles and rotors so I need to place them in a different location than stock for my axle.
Here's some pics showing hub WMS differences. Steve was helping me determine which hub offset went with different models.
13" drum hub
10" drum hub (more rare)
C&C hub
disc hub
Update- the 2 1/2" hub is a WEIRD one. The inner and outer brgs are NOT spaced the same as other hubs at 2 3/8" compared to appr 3". What this does is it moves the outer brg closer to the center (of the axle) and on my particular housing it does two things.
1- it bottoms the outer brg against the taper of the spindle (because of the narrower brg spacing) and doesn't allow you to preload BOTH brgs. Just the inner.
2- it also places the outer brg on the spindle where there isn't any threads so you can't tighten the nut up against the brg to seat it...
I will describe later how I fixed these problems so I could have the WMS I needed.
R
Below are several pics showing the hub width differences allowing multiple WMS widths when using the same axle housing assembly. (Update) "Most" hubs, bearings, axles, seals, internal components interchange but brake rotor, caliper and more important, caliper bracket location vary with each hub... and I have no idea about drum fitment issues and who in their right mind would want to use 30# drums on each side when you can use discs instead- right??
All the brake rotor issues are easily solved by calling Shawn at Lugnut4x4 who sells brake systems or components specifically for D60's, 14 bolts and other popular axle swaps. Ruff Stuff has a few options but Shawn can sell you everything you need.. He knows his stuff and his parts are high quality and cheaper than local sourcing...anyway, he can tell you which rotors and brackets can or will be needed to use with different hubs.
I chose weld on calipers again because I'm mixing axles and rotors so I need to place them in a different location than stock for my axle.
Here's some pics showing hub WMS differences. Steve was helping me determine which hub offset went with different models.
13" drum hub
10" drum hub (more rare)
C&C hub
disc hub
Update- the 2 1/2" hub is a WEIRD one. The inner and outer brgs are NOT spaced the same as other hubs at 2 3/8" compared to appr 3". What this does is it moves the outer brg closer to the center (of the axle) and on my particular housing it does two things.
1- it bottoms the outer brg against the taper of the spindle (because of the narrower brg spacing) and doesn't allow you to preload BOTH brgs. Just the inner.
2- it also places the outer brg on the spindle where there isn't any threads so you can't tighten the nut up against the brg to seat it...
I will describe later how I fixed these problems so I could have the WMS I needed.
R
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I built my 9" FF housing with internal seals, 35 double splined axles, ARB and 14 bolt outter hubs... I dubbed it a "914". The FF was the key
The 14 bolt hubs I used gave me a 64 7/8" WMS to match my 65 1/5" WMS up frt.
I will show the different WMS that you could get with the same axle housing, same axles but different hubs
1st pic is my 914 at 64 7/8"
2nd pic is normal drum brake at 66 1/4"
3rd pic is with C&C (dual) at 62 3/8"
4th pic shows the odd ball hub at 64 1/4"
I need appr 64 3/4" WMS to match what I took out so I will put a 1/4" spacer in between the wheel and hub on each hub and end up with a perfect 64 3/4" (least tape rule accuracy). No issues with 1/4" steel spacer...
If you needed to there is nothing saying you couldn't have a different wheel hub on either side when building an axle. To center it you would of course need to locate your suspension components to center the wheel mounting surfaces and then your axle housing would be centered for driving down the road. Maybe a C&C on one side and a different one on the other side to get the perfect WMS you need. (Redneck Special)
The 14 bolt hubs I used gave me a 64 7/8" WMS to match my 65 1/5" WMS up frt.
I will show the different WMS that you could get with the same axle housing, same axles but different hubs
1st pic is my 914 at 64 7/8"
2nd pic is normal drum brake at 66 1/4"
3rd pic is with C&C (dual) at 62 3/8"
4th pic shows the odd ball hub at 64 1/4"
I need appr 64 3/4" WMS to match what I took out so I will put a 1/4" spacer in between the wheel and hub on each hub and end up with a perfect 64 3/4" (least tape rule accuracy). No issues with 1/4" steel spacer...
If you needed to there is nothing saying you couldn't have a different wheel hub on either side when building an axle. To center it you would of course need to locate your suspension components to center the wheel mounting surfaces and then your axle housing would be centered for driving down the road. Maybe a C&C on one side and a different one on the other side to get the perfect WMS you need.
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I will update some info on the hub interchangeability soon. The 2 1/2" hub has a different brg spacing inside the hub and won't fit on at least my spindles on my 14 bolt. Update soon... spent 1/2 day today measuring and reviewing different options
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I sure believe ya, but post up pics so we can see if its the housing or the hub thats different. Help anybody down the road that we can.
Looks like with the drum on the backside it's not a late model.
What year is your housing and hubs?
...and
What is the measurement from the WMS to the end of the hub itself (dont include the axle flange thickness. Curious if the hub itself is a different length too.
I was about to tack my caliper brackets on but ai wi wait and see what your measurement is. Appreciate it.
Looks like with the drum on the backside it's not a late model.
What year is your housing and hubs?
...and
What is the measurement from the WMS to the end of the hub itself (dont include the axle flange thickness. Curious if the hub itself is a different length too.
I was about to tack my caliper brackets on but ai wi wait and see what your measurement is. Appreciate it.
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