bronko69er
EB Addict
Jeeze Dan, looks like you spend more time spending money than wheeling 
. Will it ever end?
. Will it ever end?
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Dan Wheeler's Dana 60 / 3 link Build Thread
- Thread starter DanWheeler
- Start date
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DanWheeler
Bronco Guru
Jeeze Dan, looks like you spend more time spending money than wheeling
I'll tell you a story about a little boy who had a lot of Legos...
This boy - we'll call him Don - would spend days and days building little cars, spaceships and moon bases out of Legos in his room all by himself. But he never actually "played" with the things he built... he just wanted to build them because that was the really fun part ;D
Jealous!
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DanWheeler
Bronco Guru
Got the ARB compressor installed
layed under the truck on my creeper for a good 2 hours this morning trying to figure out how I'm going to shove a Dana 60 under there.
Duff Arms?
Custom Radius Arms? (similar to what Clint is running and Steve is building)
3-Link?
Parallel 4-Link w/ Panhard? (like ken75ranger - http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133601)
Single Triangulated 4-Link (Rhinobuggie - http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159308)
Each of these options has some sort of problem, sacrifice or difficulty. None of them are easy. This morning I noticed my drag link is very close to (right below) my front crossmember. If I were to fix my articulation problem allowing more uptravel on the passenger side, the drag link would hit the crossmember. High-steer arms on the Dana 60 would only make it worse. A drop pitman arm might help but looks like not enough. Move the cross member? %)
here are the arms Steve is working on:
and they are modeled and apparently improved on a design by Clint who's truck can do this:
That right there is my holy grail of articulation. If it can be pointing UPHILL (not BACKING up the ramp - who goes up the trail in reverse?) and flexing like that, then something has been done right.
layed under the truck on my creeper for a good 2 hours this morning trying to figure out how I'm going to shove a Dana 60 under there.
Duff Arms?
Custom Radius Arms? (similar to what Clint is running and Steve is building)
3-Link?
Parallel 4-Link w/ Panhard? (like ken75ranger - http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133601)
Single Triangulated 4-Link (Rhinobuggie - http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159308)
Each of these options has some sort of problem, sacrifice or difficulty. None of them are easy. This morning I noticed my drag link is very close to (right below) my front crossmember. If I were to fix my articulation problem allowing more uptravel on the passenger side, the drag link would hit the crossmember. High-steer arms on the Dana 60 would only make it worse. A drop pitman arm might help but looks like not enough. Move the cross member? %)
here are the arms Steve is working on:
and they are modeled and apparently improved on a design by Clint who's truck can do this:
That right there is my holy grail of articulation. If it can be pointing UPHILL (not BACKING up the ramp - who goes up the trail in reverse?) and flexing like that, then something has been done right.
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bronko69er
EB Addict
Shave the front crossmember level with the bottom of the frame and plate it.
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DanWheeler
Bronco Guru
I like the idea, thanks. Have you seen it done or know of any pictures?
red line is flush with the frame. Doesn't leave much for strength.
yellow line is what I could maybe get away with.
blue line is with a drop pitman and estimated full compression on the passenger side. I think everything is screwed up because of the angle of the picture but I'll see if I can get away with just taking an inch or two off the crossmember or maybe even taking more off the passenger side than the driver's side.
red line is flush with the frame. Doesn't leave much for strength.
yellow line is what I could maybe get away with.
blue line is with a drop pitman and estimated full compression on the passenger side. I think everything is screwed up because of the angle of the picture but I'll see if I can get away with just taking an inch or two off the crossmember or maybe even taking more off the passenger side than the driver's side.
bronko69er
EB Addict
I have seen it done but dont have any pics.
I like your idea of just shaving at an angle what you need to.
You could always suppliment it with another cross bar in a differnet location maybe more forward.
I like your idea of just shaving at an angle what you need to.
You could always suppliment it with another cross bar in a differnet location maybe more forward.
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DanWheeler
Bronco Guru
yeah i've got plenty of room to put another brace under the radiator.
If I can get that drag link completely flat with a drop pitman arm and a high steer arm then I can maybe do a 4 link with triangulated lowers and not have to worry about bump steer.
it would be nice to not need the panhard so I can move the axle forward a few inches.
If I can get that drag link completely flat with a drop pitman arm and a high steer arm then I can maybe do a 4 link with triangulated lowers and not have to worry about bump steer.
it would be nice to not need the panhard so I can move the axle forward a few inches.
bronko69er
EB Addict
That is my plan at some time down the road.
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DanWheeler
Bronco Guru
can't remember if I already posted this but BTF has a nice set of brackets for 4-linking a Dana 60 with triangulated lowers. Only question is can it fit on the driver's side with the short tube Dana 60 I have. gonna call and see what the mounting width requirement is. I only have 3" and barely at that.
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DanWheeler
Bronco Guru
For my own reference - Link explaining welding to Dana 60 center section:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3230869&postcount=37
Because of the short driver's side tube, i'm likely going to be welding onto the cast center section for the link mount on that side.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3230869&postcount=37
Because of the short driver's side tube, i'm likely going to be welding onto the cast center section for the link mount on that side.
Thats a great article to read Dan, thanks for posting that. Any info I can soak up about welding, the better. I dont know really any specifics about welding but can weld ok. All trial and error.
ken75ranger
Bronco Guru
Do you have any room to fit the bracket on the tube and weld it on the inside of the bracket instead of the outside of the bracket? How much tube do you have to work with on the drivers side?
How far forward would you have to push the axle to clear the drag link?
A triangulated 4 link front is very difficult to set up unless you use full hydro steering. Is that in your plan?
Good to see you're taking your time to think it out.
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DanWheeler
Bronco Guru
I have exactly 3" of tube to work with and actually, some of that 3" includes a weld bead for the C. Yes I will be able to weld on the inside of the bracket but on the outside of the bracket I will need to weld on the C and the housing. I'll try to get a picture so it makes sense. I wouldn't be comfortable with it being welded on just the inside of the bracket.
How far forward to clear the drag link? Not sure what you're asking. Can you clarify? Pushing it forward makes things difficult with the panhard more so than the trackbar. I'm not sure how far forward you can push the axle without having your drag link angled forward which seems like it would cause problems.
The idea of a 4-link is tempting because it gets rid of the panhard. I have read that if you get your drag link completely flat then it will minimize/eliminate bumpsteer. Are there any other issues with 4-link you know of?
I'm also concerned about getting enough triangulation out of the upper straight mounts in a single bottom triangulated setup. The frame is much more narrow than where I would be connecting to on the axle which means both my uppers and lowers would be angled outwards which means not very good triangulation.
Yeah, all options are on the table right now. A 3-link would be great and easy but I just can't seem to fit that upper link anywhere. You're 5-link design is also looking like a good idea too. I really want to avoid radius arms because of the binding.
ken75ranger
Bronco Guru
I'll take a closer look this weekend and get you some answers. Keep in mind that your upper link doesn't have to be over your lower link in a 3 link. You can angle the upper in if you need to help fit it.
If you do a 4 link, is the main issue the steering linkage? My steering will be full hydro, and as i watch and read this thread i am seriously leaning to taking the long arms off and install this 4 link. It seems to be the way to go. I was thinking the lower arm to connect to the frame, similar to the long radius arms, and then the top link to attach in the center underneath the trans/ tcase.
Do you have your axle brackets yet Dan? I want to come down and look at your build as you get ready for your link / arm set up.
Do you have your axle brackets yet Dan? I want to come down and look at your build as you get ready for your link / arm set up.
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DanWheeler
Bronco Guru
No I dont have anything but the axles at this point. I haven't even decided which style I'm going with.
The problems with the four link I'm aware of are the steering which isn't a problem with full hydraulic or if you can flatten out your drag link and getting enough triangulation may be an issue.
I dont think the four link setup you are describing would work. Your center attachment point is almost definitely going to be lower than your frame mounts. You dont want the uppers and lowers crossing each other if looking from the side. Your center trans/tcase link mount would pretty much have to be for your lowers.
Here's a 3-link idea I was tinkering with... would this work? 2 uppers are 7" above the axle and the single lower would connect in the middle level with the axle and connect to near the trans/tcase.
This would solve the oil pan/drive shaft clearance issue for the upper link a 3-link but I have no idea if this design would even work.
it's kind of like an upside-down 3 link. It flexes just as well as a 3-link in Lego form.
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DanWheeler
Bronco Guru
OK - went over to pirate and found a thread about inverted 3-link...
I can't believe more people aren't doing this! Started a thread over there I'm gonna see if there are any downsides to this.
I can't believe more people aren't doing this! Started a thread over there I'm gonna see if there are any downsides to this.
Does that have a panhard bar in it? Can you link to the pirate thread?
Your lego idea looks similar, but with that inverted 3 link, to me it would seem stronger if the 2 link had the shorter bracket and the single link had the taller bracket. I know that ruins the ground clearance but i am just talking strength and longevity. I also wonder where the 3 links attach? All at the frame, 2 sharing a mount or does the single link attach in the center somewhere.?
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