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4speed top loader

BRONCO635

Jr. Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
136
So who out there has done the 4speed top loader swap from the stock 3speed ?
What all was involved in doing so?
Will the stock t case work? Driveshafts etc. thanks for the input In advanced.


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SteveL

Huge chevy guy
Joined
Jun 24, 2001
Messages
11,613
Loc.
Hawthorne ca
Besides the Dana 20 adapter I think it's almost a bolt in. There's a hole to drill in the intermediate housing. I think it moved the tranny support/crossmember back a little. I forget if there was enough play in the angle brackets or if I had to break out the drill. Driveshafts were fine.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
34,835
Are you looking at a standard toploader that just has more gears between 1st and top, or the overdrive version? Yes, there is an overdrive version (actually versions, multiple). It is basicly a 3-speed, 1st and 2nd are like a 3-speed transmission. You get a 1:1 for 3rd (what would be 4th in a normal 4-speed). Overdrive is what would normally be 3rd on a normal 4-speed but the gearing is setup to be overdrive instead of underdrive. The linkage is flipped so the shift pattern is still correct.

As for the normal toploader, 1st gear is actually a little taller then the 3-speed in the common wide ratio version. And most of them are the wide ratio. The close ratio has a really tall first gear, something like a 2.3:1 ratio. That's halfway between 1st and 2nd on the 3-speed.

So all this begs the question, what are you trying to get out of it? What is the goal of putting a 4-speed in? That will be a very important before you figure how it goes in.
Have you looked at the Advance Adaptors instructions for installing one? I know most of there instructions are horrible, but it is still a starting point.

I do still remember driving an old mustang with a toploader. In that light of a car with a lively 289 in it that was a lot of fun. But it was a lighter car, not a truck, and it only drove on the street.
 

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
8,614
I installed my "true" toploader 4 spd from a SBF Mustang back in the mid '80's....loved it...

More fun driving my Bronco with that tranny than with ANY other...only had 6 tranny's in mine.

Can't imagine (well, maybe) what it'd be like behind my stroker... :)

Go for it...very easy swap...can't remember some of the small details from 30 yrs back but I do remember using the same crossmember..

After quite a while I converted the shifter from the side to a top shifting linkage from some late '80's Jeep tranny...loved it. Still shifted great just didn't have all the hassles from hard shifting with constantly taking mud and sticks and crud out from the linkage as my 1/2 mile long drive was nearly impassable from mud for months every year.

I remember I had to weld in one bolt boss on the top so the shift tower would fit on but it worked flawlessly.
 

green61bug

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Messages
923
Loc.
Greensboro
Okay, I am newbie on the scene so forgive me. When you refer to toploader are you referring to a specific transmission or is are you referring to just shifter coming out of the top or side?

On another note. I have a stock 1982 ford f100 that my brother ruined the body completely on. It has a good drivetrain still and a 4-speed transmission in it. I am interested if anyone knows if that may be useful in a bronco? Out of mine, I would like to be able to cruise 65 and it not be too noisy or hard on anything.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
34,835
Toploader is referenced to a specific family of transmissions. Fords 4-speed car transmission where the inspection cover is on the top of the transmission. It is built by loading the gears in from the top. Different from many of the car 4-speeds of the day that were installed on the side. Muscle car era 4-speed. They evolved and lived up to the early 80s.

Completely different from the truck family of 4-speeds. Truck 4-speeds are very wide ratio. You generally drive them like the 3-speed that came in the Bronco. 1st gear is extra low. Sometimes the gear shift would not even list it as 1st gear, it might show it as "L" for low gear. Intended as a gear just to get a very heavy load rolling, or on a farm where low ground speed is desired. Often called a granny gear. Transmissions like this are the NP435, T18, SM465. The NP435 is the favorite for the Bronco since the adaptors put it the exact same length as the 3-speed so it is a bolt in except for the hole in the floor for the shifter.
 

bmc69

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Messages
11,852
Toploader is referenced to a specific family of transmissions. Fords 4-speed car transmission where the inspection cover is on the top of the transmission. It is built by loading the gears in from the top. Different from many of the car 4-speeds of the day that were installed on the side. Muscle car era 4-speed.

And they are getting crazy expensive too...I've seen rebuilt ones - the more rare models used behind 60s/70s hipo engines - going for for over $2000. :eek:

Even the more common ones bring at least $1500.

https://www.ebay.com/i/273432213101?chn=ps
 

green61bug

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Messages
923
Loc.
Greensboro
Toploader is referenced to a specific family of transmissions. Fords 4-speed car transmission where the inspection cover is on the top of the transmission. It is built by loading the gears in from the top. Different from many of the car 4-speeds of the day that were installed on the side. Muscle car era 4-speed. They evolved and lived up to the early 80s.

Completely different from the truck family of 4-speeds. Truck 4-speeds are very wide ratio. You generally drive them like the 3-speed that came in the Bronco. 1st gear is extra low. Sometimes the gear shift would not even list it as 1st gear, it might show it as "L" for low gear. Intended as a gear just to get a very heavy load rolling, or on a farm where low ground speed is desired. Often called a granny gear. Transmissions like this are the NP435, T18, SM465. The NP435 is the favorite for the Bronco since the adaptors put it the exact same length as the 3-speed so it is a bolt in except for the hole in the floor for the shifter.

Ah, I understand now. The f100 out in the yard has a pretty low 1st gear but its nothing like the granny gear in my 52 GMC. It's a light duty truck so I imagine it is a T170F or FS from this page...

I don't fully understand ratios when it comes to gearing but I included what the site I found claims.
 

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broncodriver99

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
4,780
Loc.
Glen Allen, VA
Ah, I understand now. The f100 out in the yard has a pretty low 1st gear but its nothing like the granny gear in my 52 GMC. It's a light duty truck so I imagine it is a T170F or FS from this page...

I don't fully understand ratios when it comes to gearing but I included what the site I found claims.

Those are the ratios for the car toploaders from the '60's.

What year is the F100? It could be one of a couple of transmissions. If it is a later toploader(T170F) the truck variants usually have a 1st gear ratio somewhere between 2.99-3.25:1(depending on engine size) and 4th gear would be an overdrive.
 

BajaBronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
3,931
I had a Stroppe with a 4speed toploader. He offered that as an option. I know of at least 4.

I love that trans in genera, and driving it in a Bronco. The Bronco I built for US INDY Mags Jack I put a toploader in. I get nothing but happy reports from him on how fun it is to drive.

The shifter available from AA leaves a ton to be desired as far as strength, fitment, and adjustment. I'm about 70% done with a shifter bracket and rod kit for the toploaders.
 

broncodriver99

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
4,780
Loc.
Glen Allen, VA
The shifter available from AA leaves a ton to be desired as far as strength, fitment, and adjustment. I'm about 70% done with a shifter bracket and rod kit for the toploaders.

You got that right. I just went through this with mine. I would be interested in what you have come up with. I had to modify the AA brackets quite a bit and the shift tabs and rods were pretty much useless. I ended up making my own set of rods and modifying the stock tabs.
 

BajaBronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
3,931
I based mine on the Stroppe brackets, which may have been early AA and or Duff. Many kit pics in old catalogs show a 3 piece bracket - but the one I made is 2 pieces...one to hold shifter brain and one rear brace and thats it. Rods are hardened adjustable. Waterjet cut, etc. I'm moving my shop in the next 2 months so the stuff is buried at the moment. I'll be installing the set up after moving however - I'm restoring the 68 Mexican 1000 winning Bronco and it had a 4speed so that was one reason to make these sets. I made 10 sets and so far used 2.
 

green61bug

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Messages
923
Loc.
Greensboro
Those are the ratios for the car toploaders from the '60's.

What year is the F100? It could be one of a couple of transmissions. If it is a later toploader(T170F) the truck variants usually have a 1st gear ratio somewhere between 2.99-3.25:1(depending on engine size) and 4th gear would be an overdrive.

It is a 1982 Ford F100... I need to go out and take a look underneath it. Those specs I posted came from this site:

http://www.blueovaltrucks.com/tech/transmissions_manual.htm
 

hucktruck

Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2004
Messages
416
Loc.
Missouri
You got that right. I just went through this with mine. I would be interested in what you have come up with. I had to modify the AA brackets quite a bit and the shift tabs and rods were pretty much useless. I ended up making my own set of rods and modifying the stock tabs.

I bought the AA kit for my toploader swap and gave up on it. I couldn't make any sense of the rods. They didn't look anything like the ones I ended up using (bought a used kit from someone on here).
 
OP
OP
BRONCO635

BRONCO635

Jr. Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
136
Are you looking at a standard toploader that just has more gears between 1st and top, or the overdrive version? Yes, there is an overdrive version (actually versions, multiple). It is basicly a 3-speed, 1st and 2nd are like a 3-speed transmission. You get a 1:1 for 3rd (what would be 4th in a normal 4-speed). Overdrive is what would normally be 3rd on a normal 4-speed but the gearing is setup to be overdrive instead of underdrive. The linkage is flipped so the shift pattern is still correct.

As for the normal toploader, 1st gear is actually a little taller then the 3-speed in the common wide ratio version. And most of them are the wide ratio. The close ratio has a really tall first gear, something like a 2.3:1 ratio. That's halfway between 1st and 2nd on the 3-speed.

So all this begs the question, what are you trying to get out of it? What is the goal of putting a 4-speed in? That will be a very important before you figure how it goes in.
Have you looked at the Advance Adaptors instructions for installing one? I know most of there instructions are horrible, but it is still a starting point.

I do still remember driving an old mustang with a toploader. In that light of a car with a lively 289 in it that was a lot of fun. But it was a lighter car, not a truck, and it only drove on the street.



Well to shed some light on what I’m doing ,I have a street truck with the stock 3 speed converted to the floor shift.
Running 33s and stock gearing.
As it’s not too bad now I have the opportunity to get a 4 speed T18 from a guy that has it already installed in his bronco that wants to upgrade to a 5 speed.
So all that said I was kinda hoping it would give me a lower 1st gear for creeping a little better at slow speeds
and that 35 -40 mph where I can’t decide to be in 2nd or 3rd city driving.
Believe it or not 3rd gear on highway speeds isn’t to bad.
( Im referring to the current 3speed trans with above comments.)


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broncodriver99

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
4,780
Loc.
Glen Allen, VA
Well to shed some light on what I’m doing ,I have a street truck with the stock 3 speed converted to the floor shift.
Running 33s and stock gearing.
As it’s not too bad now I have the opportunity to get a 4 speed T18 from a guy that has it already installed in his bronco that wants to upgrade to a 5 speed.
So all that said I was kinda hoping it would give me a lower 1st gear for creeping a little better at slow speeds
and that 35 -40 mph where I can’t decide to be in 2nd or 3rd city driving.
Believe it or not 3rd gear on highway speeds isn’t to bad.
( Im referring to the current 3speed trans with above comments.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The T-18 is not a toploader, it is a T-18. Technically it is a top loading gear set transmission, but it is not the same transmission that is referred to as The toploader. Whole different transmission. T-18's were made by Borg Warner. T-18's do have a granny gear though.

Here is a tech article on the T-18. http://classicbroncos.com/tech/t18-borg-warner-4-speed-manual-transmission-guide
 
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