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2 batteries...in two days

Shkwgt

New Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
8
Team,
New to the forum, new to the Bronco family, just received our 1970 this week. It was shipped from Colorado to Hawaii. Upon arrival battery was dead, thought that may be normal after shipment, replaced it with a new battery that last two days, drove it three times and got it measured with 31 amps after it wouldn’t start in our driveway...rated at 710 CCA when we bought it. Got a new battery, put it in, started right up.

Alternator looks brand new—any other ideas? Afraid it may be somewhere in the wiring harness. Looking for the wire that goes from the alternator to the battery, lots of wrapped wires....don’t see one that goes from alternator to battery.

All ears.

Cheers,
ShkWgt
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,355
Hey there. Welcome to classicbroncos! Congrats on the new purchase too.
Multiple things can drain a battery, so there are a few things to check.

Sounds like yours is not charging (new alternator or not at this point) so you'll need to check the battery voltage with the engine running. If it's 14.5v then the alternator is charging.
If it's less than 13v it's not charging enough, and you'll have to find out why. Maybe it's the alternator itself, or maybe (more likely) it's the wiring.

If you don't have a volt-meter, it would be good to get one. Even a cheapie is good enough for this type of work, but a decent one only costs $20-30 bucks anyway (at least on the mainland) so not too bad.

You should be watching your ammeter anyway. All gauges are there to monitor how things are working.
Normal working of an ammeter in a Bronco is:
1. During cranking the starter, the needle will go substantially into the negative zone.
2. Right after the engine fires up, the needle will go well up into the positive zone.
3. As the engine is running, you should see the needle slowly move steadily towards the zero point. Depending on how much charge the battery needs, this could be anywhere from as little as a minute, to as much as 20 minutes. But it should move towards near-zero.
4. When things normalize, you will see the ammeter needle float just to the positive side of zero.
5. And last, whenever you turn an accessory one (headlights, heater, etc) you will see the needle flutter. If the engine is running, it might go lower for a moment, then back up slightly. If the engine is off, anything you turn on will move the needle into negative territory.

Your meter should always be showing something. Of course, "zero" is relative in this case to where it points when everything is off. If it's pointing to 5amps positive normally, then obviously you would have to take that into account. This is an analog and direct-reading gauge. So unlike modern electrical gauges it is not going to reset to zero every time you turn the key on.

It's a very handy gauge to tell you what's going on with the electrical system.
A nice supplemental gauge would be a voltage gauge that plugs into the cigar lighter.
We don't have that type anymore, but they are still around and very handy.
If you want something a little more permanent, these types can work out well: WH Voltage Gauges for most situations.

Anyway, check the voltages and see what's going on. We can run down some possible culprits as soon as we know what's going on.

Paul
 

B RON CO

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Messages
2,412
Loc.
Statesville, NC
Hi, I assume most guys have basic hand tools and experience to get through these jobs. So here goes.
Get the battery fully charged by the store that sold it to you if you don't have a battery charger.
As you put the negative cable (always on last) check to see if there is a spark as the - cable goes on the post.
If you get a large spark you have a current draw which is draining the battery when it is parked.
You have to find out what is causing the draw.
There are a few key off items like dome light, glove box light etc. Make sure the headlight switch rheostat is not on. You can also remove one fuse at a time and see if the draw goes away.
If you have a small draw at the battery it could be the radio memory. Make sure the radio and everything else is off, since some people wire them to be on when the key is off.
Many auto parts store do free testing.
When the battery is fully charged, you should be able to get to an auto parts store for a quick charging system test.
Good luck
 
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Shkwgt

New Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
8
Thanks team, very useful and appreciate your time / feedback. See how far along I can get today with troubleshooting.

Cheers,
Shkwgt
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
34,835
As for the spark when attaching the negative cable. Depending on what has been added (stereo, ignition system, etc.) you might get a spark as the capacitors charge up. touch once, get a spark. Second touch no spark or very tiny. Over the years I have learned that hooking up battery cables the ground gets a tap, another tap, a touch and hold, a light install, then fully installed.
 
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Shkwgt

New Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
8
Team,
So, bronco off gave me 12.36 volts, running gave me 12.16 and stayed fairly steady. Don’t have ammmeter. Finding little things like the turn signals are not working (checked the fuse and replaced both bulbs). Thinking it may be a wiring thing....

Next steps?
 

B RON CO

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Messages
2,412
Loc.
Statesville, NC
Hi, at 12 volts running there is a problem with the charging system.
I would make sure the plug at voltage regulator is in good shape. The wires could be frayed or broken.
You should learn how to full field the alternator from a Ford shop manual. It is an easy charging system test.
Don't just assume the alternator and or regulator
( usually changed together) are bad without more diagnosis.
For the directionals, see if the 4 way flashers work, all the bulbs should blink. That problem may be the directional flasher under the dash. Good luck
 
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Shkwgt

New Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
8
Team,
Thanks for all the help—it’s been greatly appreciated and very helpful. Called in a mutual friend who is savvy in all this, tested wires on the back of the alternator and couldn’t get anything in terms of a reading. Nor did the reading on the battery go up when we pumped the gas pedal after we turned it on. I pulled the alternator and will take it in to get tested tomorrow. More to follow...

Cheers,
Shkwgt
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,355
While you're messing about with it, can you take some pictures under the hood and of the instrument cluster and dash, so we know what we're dealing with?
Over the last 48 years a LOT of stuff could have been changed. For instance, without an ammeter, I assume there is a volt-meter installed in the dash? If so, that might mean that the alternator has been upgraded to a higher output, and maybe even a more modern style with internal regulator.

The fact that the vehicle has power, and you can energize the starter with the key means that the Black wire from the battery side of the starter relay/solenoid is connected and in decent shape. The other end of that wire is the Black wire (maybe with a yellow stripe) on the BAT terminal of the alternator.

If you still have an externally regulated alternator, you may want to take that in with the alternator in case your local store can check the condition of a regulator.
And we can check the readings on the three wires at the regulator too, to make sure things are working as expected.

You could have all good components and if the Green w/red wire is not getting power with the key in the RUN position, your alternator will never get the signal to charge the battery.

Good luck. Oh, for images you can post some up to your "garage" function of the forum. Or you can use another online image hosting site like SuperMotors. Or you can become a contributor for 12 bucks a year and simply upload images directly to your post from your device.
Any of those work of course, but paying the membership fee keeps things running smoothly and might give Jon/Admin a chance to come out to Hawaii and say hi!
Maybe we can convince him it's a business trip and help you work on your Bronco while learning to surf!;D

Paul
 

B RON CO

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Messages
2,412
Loc.
Statesville, NC
Hi, if your alternator tests bad on the bench test make sure you get the 60 amp if you are keeping the stock parts on your Bronco. My Bronco came with a 38 amp alternator. Big cars with all the accessories came with a 60 amp. They are all look the same. They may only stock the 60 amp anyway.
Also get the modern electronic voltage regulator, they tend to last forever if you get a top quality name brand.
The original regulator was a mechanical style, which tend to wear out.
Good luck
 
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Shkwgt

New Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
8
Good morning team,
Alternator checked good last night, I do have an external voltage regulator. Going to try and test that today and double-check all the wiring from the alternator when I hook it back up.

I believe I have a voltmeter but the only function on my dash that works is currently the speedometer. Fuel, turn signal, voltmeter doesn’t work. Said it came with a painless wiring harness. Checking the fuses today as well.

Thanks again and happy Monday 🤙🏼
 

Blue Bastard

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
2,161
Those regulators are pretty cheap to replace if the current one looks old and worn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,355
Ahh, so this is why we need pics and a LOT more detailed information when trying to diagnose things.
I know this Bronco is very new to you, but I'm guilty of assuming it was all stock wiring because you didn't mention it had been re-wired.

So now we need to know if it was the Bronco-specific Painless kit, or one of their universal setups. This would change the wire colors.
So yes, definitely check the fuses. In a stock Bronco wiring scheme, there are no fuses for the alternator circuits. In the Painless kits I believe there are.

If this is the Bronco replacement harness you will want to check these things (after the fuses) to make sure all of the alternator wires are functioning.

For the regulator, your 4-position plug should have three colored wires in it (or four, if you have the radio noise suppressor still intact) and those are:

Orange, Green w/red and Yellow. They are marked as "F" "S" "A" and "I" where "I" in the last position is empty/blank. Ford uses that position only with vehicles that have charge indicator lamps on the dash. Broncos all had ammeters instead, and no indicator lamp. So they were wired differently at the regulator.

For testing, the Orange "F" wire will have variable voltages, so you don't need to worry about that just yet.
The Green w/red "S" (or "switched" if you prefer) wire will have 12v only when the key is in the RUN position.
The Yellow "A" (or "always" because it's easier to remember that way) wire will have 12v all the time when the battery is connected.

If either of those two do not have power when expected, or if it's substantially different from battery voltage readings, you'll need to find out why. New wires should not have much, if any voltage drop from battery voltage.
It always helps to measure the battery first when checking out the rest of your wiring. That way you know what to expect and can see at a glance if you have a loss somewhere.
A good example is fighting dim headlights (something you should not have trouble with, because of the new harness) and noting that the battery is 12.4v and the voltage at the headlight sockets is only 10.8v or so. Then you know what you're looking to fix.

So please, if you are not able to put up pictures at this time, at least put as full a description as you can in your signature line so we can see it and refer to it every time we jump back on the diagnosis train.
Naturally you may not know it all yet, because it's new to you and you may not have owned Broncos before. But if you have, put that knowledge to the test and right down any of the major changes/updates that have been made to your rig.

Thanks

And good luck with the regulator. Another friend/member is fighting his '69 right now because we know (from testing) that his alternator works, and that his wires are reading the correct voltages, and that the Orange wire is good because he tested it. But he's not getting any action from the brand new voltage regulator.
Another case of chasing tails only to find out the brand new part(s) that you installed is actually at the root of the problem after all. These days we can't figure on the new parts being good anymore. So even though we replace them, you can't ignore the signs that point back at the new part.

In fact, Ford starter relays and voltage regulators are probably in the top 10 most often failed parts right out of the box. The originals lasted 20 years, but the new ones are crap.

So you get to deal with that joy yourself now too!
Fun fun...

Paul
 

Rustytruck

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
Make sure you have clean and tight grounds. Ground from negative of battery to engine block. Ground from negative of battery to the body. Clean ground from under the starter solenoid to the body through its mounting bolts. Clean ground from under the voltage regulator to the body through its mounting bolts. Alternator is usually grounded through its mounting brackets if brackets are painted or powder coated then make sure you provide for a good ground for the alternator case. Cleaning grounds should be first thing on the list when you start having problems.
 

Justafordguy

Contributor
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Joined
Sep 26, 2009
Messages
6,253
If you still have the stock type alternator with the external regulator, The first thing I would do is full field test the alternator. If you connect the A and F wires in the voltage regulator plug with the engine running you should see your voltage on the battery go up to at least 13.5 volts or higher. If it does you know your alternator and wiring is good and your problem is the regulator. I just had my regulator go out last week and using this method takes only a few minutes to know for sure.
 

Rustytruck

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
If everybody did this we would have half the volume on this site. Where would parts sales go when its fix without guessing about which part failed and then you also loose all those additional part sales when they are thinking, While I am fixing this I might as well fix?
 
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Shkwgt

New Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
8
Team,
Attached are some photos.
Alternator is currently removed (reinstalling it shortly). Also, only gauge I have that works is speedometer. When I bought it said it had a painless wiring harness. I’ll be checking off the things above and letting you know. Plan on metering the external voltage regulator when I get back.

Thanks again!
ShkWgt
 

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Shkwgt

New Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
8
Team,
Tested the alternator last night—checks good.
Wired the voltage regulator and it shows an output of 12.17 while engine is running. Below is gauge while running.

All ears and suggestions.
Just checked all the grounds cleaned as well.
Bad voltage regulator?
 

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