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My overheating journey never ends

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mduenas

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Dec 29, 2015
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511
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Los Angeles
Lastly, I’m just throwing this out there, as most of you think it is my solution, and I want to be certain on price, since I have already done so much. What am I looking at financially for the explorer front dress. $900, plus fan clutch and fan? Can I run it with my Ron Davis radiator? Same shroud? Also about how long does it take to install? Is it pretty straight forward?

Could I possibly go to a pick a part and remove it from an explorer, or is getting the complete system from a vendor the easiest?
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
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...I also am still not sure what vacuum lines to move and cap on the fitech. For full manifold vacuum. I’m assuming I can move and play with them and it won’t mess anything up.

From the previous pics as a reference, it should be relatively easy to play with.
Where is your vacuum advance currently connected?

Obviously the two main large ones (3/8" size) will remain the PCV and brake booster functions. The two or three smaller fittings are what you're looking at.
The one at the top-left of the IAC that is at a slight angle upward is the ported vacuum and where most of us run advance currently.
One of the lower ones, facing straight out to the side, would be full manifold vacuum. You can cap the upper angled fitting temporarily and utilize the lower straight fitting for your vacuum advance.

Likely you'll set your base advance (with the vacuum disconnected) to a lower than normal setting, such as 6-8 degrees, as opposed to the typical 10-14 degrees many of us use.
When you reconnect the vacuum hose your idle advance will immediately jump up to full vacuum advance, whatever your distributor is set to. Likely between 12 and 20 extra degrees.
On a carbureted engine this would immediately raise the idle and you'd have to reset it manually. With the EFI it should know what to do I would think.

But since FiTech actually recommends the ported vacuum fitting for their unit, it may act up a bit initially. I don't know that at all, I'm just guessing at possible scenarios and throwing them out there at this point.
But the main point is that your idle advance setting will be WAY more advanced than previously.

Be interesting to see what, if anything it changes. Not only in temperatures and how fast or slow they climb, but in how it runs overall. Right now you're pretty happy with the way it runs under normal circumstances, correct?

I'll go back and find those images that were posted to your thread to make sure I'm steering you in the right direction for the port connections.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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Lastly, I’m just throwing this out there, as most of you think it is my solution, and I want to be certain on price, since I have already done so much.

I'm not one of those yet. But I can still be convinced.;D
I'm a huge fan of the Explorer setup of course, and have recommended it for years. But you already seem to have lots of air flow (well, some of the time at least).
However, it could still come down to water flow too, and right now you're just running a stock pump in a stock orientation. Which I don't think is as effective as the Explorer setup.
And at the same time, if it was me, even though you want to change just one aspect at a time to be sure you know what fixes the issue, if I had all that apart up front I would be installing a FlowKooler or similar high-volume pump at the same time.
Of course, that's because I would likely be putting a new water pump on the old setup anyway. No matter if I wanted a high-flow pump or not. I just don't trust old junkyard pumps in general.

What am I looking at financially for the explorer front dress. $900, plus fan clutch and fan?

Should not be that much, but it definitely climbs quickly. The assembly will likely come with fan and clutch anyway. If you get it from sandmann here, you should get it all.
And yes, the clutch "might" be toast from an old setup, but I trust the old clutches more than I do the old pumps. Can't remember how many who've done the swap have had to replace the clutch.

Pricewise, I've seen over the years anything from $200 to $600 all-in. If you get a pump for about $60 (standard) to $110 (Flow-Kooler) you could still be into it for way under the $900 you were thinking.
Unless prices have gone way up since the last time I looked?

Can I run it with my Ron Davis radiator? Same shroud?

Absolutely. Many of us are...
Mine is a stock radiator layout (our triple-bypass version) and aluminum RD shroud (based on the stock design though) and works well together. Yours should too.

Also about how long does it take to install? Is it pretty straight forward?

Now that's something I've never paid much attention to. But with your recent experience at yanking things and putting them back, you should be able to do it in an hour!
For me though, probably take all weekend because I like to stare at parts until they clean, paint and reinstall themselves.;D

As usual then, your results may vary.
Probably others here have a better idea of what it takes though.

Could I possibly go to a pick a part and remove it from an explorer, or is getting the complete system from a vendor the easiest?

Either way. Whether it's "easier" one way or the other though, depends on how much you like to play around in the junkyard.
I actually do like grubbing around in the boneyard, but still prefer buying one. I got mine from sandmann about 10 years ago now I think.

He's got it down to a science, but if you do it yourself just make sure you get EVERYTHING from the Explorer front!
You'll need the main brackets, the harmonic balancer (more on that in a minute), the front cover, thermostat/water neck, any other little nick-nacks and ALL of the bolts. The fasteners are very Explorer-specific, just like the rest of the stuff.

Depends too on if your junkyards still have Explorers and Mountaineers.

Back to the damper, if your current engine is a 50oz imbalance modern 5.0 setup, you just put the Explorer damper on and go.
If it's an early 28oz crank/block, you can use the Explorer damper after you have DamperDudes (or anyone that can do the work) re-balance the setup to your engine.
Or you can use the original factory damper for your engine (assuming it's close to a Bronco damper) and add this pulley: https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Custom-Crank-Pulley-Bronco-302-Explorer-5-front/bronco_pulleys to make it all play nice together.
Depends on what you have on there now.

Paul
 
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mduenas

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Paul,

Thank you so much. I’m not sure who sandmann, is that a member in here? I looked at BC Broncos and a few other sites, if it was in the $200-$600 range I would do it in a millisecond, of course I would add a flowkooler water pump, just to make sure I didn’t leave anything out.

As for my dampener, I have no idea what is on the truck, when I removed the crank pulley I tried to see any tell tale markings, and I could not, only the degrees, how would I find out? That price bracket has me very tempted.

Of course fixing my issue while not spending money is ideal, but if that set up was to make my life easier, I wouldn’t hesitate.
 
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DirtDonk

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Interesting... Yes, sandman is a member here, but when searching him out, I could not come up with the spelling I remember (with the 2 "n's" at the end) so not sure.
He's posted up recently here, and others have bought from him as well, so maybe they still have his contact info.
Didn't realize that BC had the full setup as well until you mentioned it.

If your damper has three bolts holding the pulley on, then it very well could be an original Bronco damper. If not then it's probably more of a sure thing if you call DamperDudes to get a replacement Explorer damper balanced for the older engine.
Not sure if they need the cores anymore, but others will know.

For the no-more-money aspect, at least you can still play with the vacuum.
At least this way we'll permanently rule out the engine tune issue. I know you've played with it a bit already, but this is another test along those lines and should not result in any pinging or knocking.
If it does, then your EFI is maybe running too lean perhaps. Though I think there too, you have reported normal numbers from the tuning screen.

Paul
 

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
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Jul 31, 2001
Messages
8,605
$250 max for you to pull everything for the Exploder serp...!

I'd forgotten over the past few weeks or month :( that you had a stock WP on it still -could be original still...sorry I missed that. If you've got a few miles on it...it could be worn or operating at much less than optimum efficiency, thereby not moving enough water and not pressurizing the block enough to adequately cool your engine.
The symptom that lends itself to airflow and possibly wtrpump cause is you only have overheating problems at idle or barely above idle.

Higher rpms and/or speed means more air from mph and more water moving from rpm
 
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mduenas

Sr. Member
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Dec 29, 2015
Messages
511
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Los Angeles
$250 max for you to pull everything for the Exploder serp...!

I'd forgotten over the past few weeks or month :( that you had a stock WP on it still -could be original still...sorry I missed that. If you've got a few miles on it...it could be worn or operating at much less than optimum efficiency, thereby not moving enough water and not pressurizing the block enough to adequately cool your engine.
The symptom that lends itself to airflow and possibly wtrpump cause is you only have overheating problems at idle or barely above idle.

Higher rpms and/or speed means more air from mph and more water moving from rpm

If it is $250 max I would do it without hesitation. And put a hiflow water pump in. Where on earth can that swap be acquired for $250? And that’s everytbinf I need? Brackets and all?
 
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mduenas

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Messages
511
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Interesting... Yes, sandman is a member here, but when searching him out, I could not come up with the spelling I remember (with the 2 "n's" at the end) so not sure.
He's posted up recently here, and others have bought from him as well, so maybe they still have his contact info.
Didn't realize that BC had the full setup as well until you mentioned it.

If your damper has three bolts holding the pulley on, then it very well could be an original Bronco damper. If not then it's probably more of a sure thing if you call DamperDudes to get a replacement Explorer damper balanced for the older engine.
Not sure if they need the cores anymore, but others will know.

For the no-more-money aspect, at least you can still play with the vacuum.
At least this way we'll permanently rule out the engine tune issue. I know you've played with it a bit already, but this is another test along those lines and should not result in any pinging or knocking.
If it does, then your EFI is maybe running too lean perhaps. Though I think there too, you have reported normal numbers from the tuning screen.

Paul

My damper has 3 bolts holding the Pully on. I’m going to take a picture of my EFI Tuning and post here as well.
 

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
Joined
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8,605
Yes, 250 for all serp stuff...IF you need to rebalance the HB then that is extra...I just tossed one...
I live in a County with one domestic bone yard...I usually pay double what Bronco buddies pay at Pick and Pulls in the next County or 200 miles away...seriously, 250 for the works.

Potential or extra costs--
Harmonic balancer
Wtrpump
Alternator-go with a used Motorcraft over ANY aftermarket or rebuilt one
Serp belt. amazon...my discount at my local Napa costs me 48 bucks for a belt. Amazon was $23 for a Goodyear Gatorback (its an anti-squeal design...and it works)
T-stat
Adaper or brkt for p/s
 
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mduenas

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Messages
511
Loc.
Los Angeles
Yes, 250 for all serp stuff...IF you need to rebalance the HB then that is extra...I just tossed one...
I live in a County with one domestic bone yard...I usually pay double what Bronco buddies pay at Pick and Pulls in the next County or 200 miles away...seriously, 250 for the works.

Potential or extra costs--
Harmonic balancer
Wtrpump
Alternator-go with a used Motorcraft over ANY aftermarket or rebuilt one
Serp belt. amazon...my discount at my local Napa costs me 48 bucks for a belt. Amazon was $23 for a Goodyear Gatorback (its an anti-squeal design...and it works)
T-stat
Adaper or brkt for p/s

This is a silly question, but how would I know if I need to rebalance the HB? Also, where would I find everything for $250? Pick a parts by me are expensive.
I would definitely get a new hiflow water pump as well,
I have a brand new alternator on the truck as well, so that would just be a Pully replacement correct?
And where would I find the adapter or brackets? I’m assuming the vintage air one I have won’t work? What about the bracket for the alternator?

Seems with everything I’d be around $500 then?

I just don’t know where to start acquiring, unless I can by it part by part in ebay, just afraid i would miss something.
 

gr8scott

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I believe it is the stock water pump.

I had to run a high volume pump to keep my traffic light temps at bay. Never overheated, but too warm for my liking.
If you do get one, get a GMB. From what I read recently, FloKooler and Milodon (which I currently run) buy their housings
from GMB, slap their impellers on, and mark up the price. Of course you'll need the corresponding 195° high flow t-stat.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gmb-125-1420p

Good article:
https://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Cooling/
 

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73azbronco

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So back to engine bay shrouding, you installed the air dam under the hood? How about using some duct tape and cardboard and filling in every spot air could cycle back into the front of the radiator and give it a spin?

I'm still thinking based on experience, all things being equal, you replaced all the usual suspects like radiator, thermostat and water pump, that when you have a motor get hotter and hotter at idle, you have a worn out motor making to much heat.
 

blubuckaroo

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I guess I don’t understand what I’m supposed to get then? I have the same fan, and shroud many of the members have. Both from wild horses. Steel shroud and 18inch fan. I have about 1 inch from blade to side of the shroud all the way around.

Just look at your photo.
How can that be considered efficient? There's just too much clearance between the fan and shroud.
No matter where you bought the parts.
Believe me, even our favorite vendors are focused on dollars.
 
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mduenas

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Just look at your photo.
How can that be considered efficient? There's just too much clearance between the fan and shroud.
No matter where you bought the parts.
Believe me, even our favorite vendors are focused on dollars.

I’m not sure what combo I’m supposed to run then? This is my 3 rd combo
 
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mduenas

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Here are all my settings from my fitech. It is 100 degrees out today, and with the hood open it was at 206 when I turned the truck off. So not sure if it would stop, drop or climb.

I also noticed a little white smoke coming from what looked like my passenger side header. And a clicking. Pretty sure it sounds like when I had an exhaust leak previously.

Here is a link to the video. I know it is off topic, but just trying to squash everything I can to fix this issue.

https://youtu.be/6a4ECwwvTeU

With my ir Thermometer (if it is working properly) water leaving the water pump was 190 and then leaving the radiator was 180. That seems very cool. I have a new temp sensor, should I replace and double check? The fitech water temp was reading about 20-30 degrees cooler than the Dakota digital in the cabin.
 

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toddz69

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I’m not sure what combo I’m supposed to run then? This is my 3 rd combo

I think we're getting off in the weeds on the fan/shroud clearance.

Perhaps it might be more helpful if someone that's watching this thread could run out to their rig that has a stock fan/shroud combo and measure the clearance.

I measured mine just for giggles (Explorer fan and RD full-circle shroud) and I have 0.75" from the tip of the blade to the inside of the shroud. So if yours is 1", I don't think that's excessive.

Todd Z.
 

blubuckaroo

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The compressor is currently ran over the water pump right now, are you suggesting it should be otherwise? I’m Not sure there is room to mount it anywhere else.

VA's kit has a separate idler pulley that can isolate the other belts from the compressor.
Did you obtain your VA kit from an individual?
 

73azbronco

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So you have an AC condenser in front of the radiator? So did I, it always overheated. Removed it, no overheat.

You only have a 10 degree drop across the radiator?

Sorry to say but nobody I know in the AZ area has a successful AC installed, it either overheats or does not provide adequate AC to the cab, the best I have heard is you get a cool kneecap.
 
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