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WARNING - Issues with seller

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AZ73

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
3,542
I usually don't get involved in these disputes, but having just executive coached a similar problem I thought I'd share some points. This is not a criticism of you, it's just obvious questions I pose to executives to help them see the problem away from the emotion of the situation. Of course I don't know the details, such as if it was a new or used motor, but a new (or even used) motor that shows a great compression before starting for the first time installed can EASILY be ruined by poor start-up/break in procedures. The most common issue is cylinder wall scoring caused by excessive fuel in the cylinders while attempting to start with an ignition issue, such as the distributor is installed off by 180 degrees or some other ignition issue. Once it's scored, the compression in that (or all) of the cylinders will drop and is measurable. So if you want to accuse anyone of anything, post your before and after compression measurements. This is what my engine builder requires just to send it back, then he tests it to check your measurements before he pulls it apart to look for scoring. 100% of the time it's scoring from bad start-up procedures in which case guess who pays?

Again, I don't know the specifics, but if someone offers to refund your money and you don't take it, regardless of it being difficult to pull and ship back, it's hard to have pity. In my other business (auto parts to body shops), we offer full refunds to unhappy customers. Sometimes the item we ship is manufactured faulty, but the vast majority of the time, the customer ordered the wrong part. We eat it in the name of customer service. If the customer doesn't want to ship it back for a full refund, there's not a whole lot more we can do for them and complaining won't solve their problem. They still have their bad part, we still have their money, and the problem isn't solved but we're not out anything but a customer we really don't want because we'll never make them happy anyway. So we respond to the few bad reviews we've received with the same, although slightly more professional, response as Ryle and our other customers understand. Coming here to complain about it isn't going to solve your problem. You still have a potentially bad motor, you still refused a full refund, you decided it was too difficult to pull (yes, life isn't fair, you have to return something to get a refund). Those are all your own choices and you just make excuses for your choices - how do I know I'd even get the refund? - that's an excuse. If you didn't, THAT'S the time to come here and complain. Complaining about an unknown is just complaining. How does Ryle know you didn't ruin the motor? That's how the world works. The result of your outcome is 100% driven by your own decisions. It takes less than 90 min to pull a motor from a Bronco and it's not worth your time to pull it (your quote). So apparently your time is worth more than $533/hr? (that's $800/90 min) Why are you here complaining about $800? At that rate your complaining has cost you probably 1/4 hour, or $133.

Again, I don't know the specifics, and this is an unfortunate situation, but seriously think about the choices you are making. If you are making them, you have to live with them. Blaming others isn't going to help your situation.
 

savage

Contributor
Bronco Nut
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
2,482
Loc.
Renton
Pulling a motor and shipping is a large ordeal. Not to mention being that I never got two of the Parts promised and have been strung along on their shipment for months, I’ve decided to cut my losses.

As I stated before I’ve decided to cut my losses and make the most of it. It runs, so I’ll just have to live with topping it off with oil and will fix it one day when I can afford the rebuild cost.
Are you sure your pvc system is hooked up wright? If not it could cause all kinds of problem. I'm not you, but if its as bad as it sounds and the seller is willing to give you a full refund, I'd pull it and put it on a pallet, and make the seller pay for shipping, wirer you the refund.
 
OP
OP
O

OhhhhYeahhh

Jr. Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
81
I usually don't get involved in these disputes, but having just executive coached a similar problem I thought I'd share some points. This is not a criticism of you, it's just obvious questions I pose to executives to help them see the problem away from the emotion of the situation. Of course I don't know the details, such as if it was a new or used motor, but a new (or even used) motor that shows a great compression before starting for the first time installed can EASILY be ruined by poor start-up/break in procedures. The most common issue is cylinder wall scoring caused by excessive fuel in the cylinders while attempting to start with an ignition issue, such as the distributor is installed off by 180 degrees or some other ignition issue. Once it's scored, the compression in that (or all) of the cylinders will drop and is measurable. So if you want to accuse anyone of anything, post your before and after compression measurements. This is what my engine builder requires just to send it back, then he tests it to check your measurements before he pulls it apart to look for scoring. 100% of the time it's scoring from bad start-up procedures in which case guess who pays?

Again, I don't know the specifics, but if someone offers to refund your money and you don't take it, regardless of it being difficult to pull and ship back, it's hard to have pity. In my other business (auto parts to body shops), we offer full refunds to unhappy customers. Sometimes the item we ship is manufactured faulty, but the vast majority of the time, the customer ordered the wrong part. We eat it in the name of customer service. If the customer doesn't want to ship it back for a full refund, there's not a whole lot more we can do for them and complaining won't solve their problem. They still have their bad part, we still have their money, and the problem isn't solved but we're not out anything but a customer we really don't want because we'll never make them happy anyway. So we respond to the few bad reviews we've received with the same, although slightly more professional, response as Ryle and our other customers understand. Coming here to complain about it isn't going to solve your problem. You still have a potentially bad motor, you still refused a full refund, you decided it was too difficult to pull (yes, life isn't fair, you have to return something to get a refund). Those are all your own choices and you just make excuses for your choices - how do I know I'd even get the refund? - that's an excuse. If you didn't, THAT'S the time to come here and complain. Complaining about an unknown is just complaining. How does Ryle know you didn't ruin the motor? That's how the world works. The result of your outcome is 100% driven by your own decisions. It takes less than 90 min to pull a motor from a Bronco and it's not worth your time to pull it (your quote). So apparently your time is worth more than $533/hr? (that's $800/90 min) Why are you here complaining about $800? At that rate your complaining has cost you probably 1/4 hour, or $133.

Again, I don't know the specifics, and this is an unfortunate situation, but seriously think about the choices you are making. If you are making them, you have to live with them. Blaming others isn't going to help your situation.

It was a used motor from a 77’ Bronco. I was told it had zero issues. It was already pulled when he listed it for sale so I couldn't hear it run. He had no photos of it installed in the bronco nor a video of it running.

I initially told him it was smoking up a storm well over a month ago, and he never offered refunds throughout our conversations. Instead he blamed everything but the motor. He even blamed the spark plugs. This was an ongoing open discussion and eventually he stopped replying to texts or calls. I hoped the issues would go away but they didn’t. I then called him from a blocked number and he answered, very surprised to hear my voice. Again he said he shipped the air cleaner and then offered a refund upon return of the motor. If he was ignoring me, being evasive, and lying about shipping an air cleaner why on earth should I have trusted him to refund my money? I believe only a fool would have shipped back the motor expecting a refund.

In parallel with the install process over the past few months I was continuing to ask about the parts that I never received. I have records via text of asking about the air cleaner for the past 3 months, never receiving one and being told numerous times it was going to be shipped or it was shipped. That last “shipment” of the air cleaner took place on 10/6 yet I never got it. He couldn’t supply a tracking number either.

With all this said my actions are justified and thorough and anyone who though it through would have taken the same steps I did.

I didn’t want to have to get into it all the details here because the point of me posting was to make others aware of my situation and I didn’t want to stir up drama. I understand why you would have those and since you are asking I decided to elaborate.
 

Iwannagofast

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Messages
129
You didn’t want to stir up drama but you posted up all my information and said I scammed you? You just keep adding things now at this point and keep making things up. I even tried setteling with you and you didn’t even reply. It’s funny, “Hey man this motor is smoking” but researching you I found that you deal with lots of Broncos and curb them, which I saw some unhappy as well. I like how you didn’t mention how I gave you literally everything you needed to install that motor in your 6 cylinder swap. That’s why you won’t accept a refund because you know even with the little parts I gave you would add up to over $800 in just shipping. Think about this logically, I offered you a refund on a so called “bad motor” but yet you don’t want a refund, you want a 25% discount instead. Not even Amazon would do this, they would just sit and laugh at you. Your backyard mechanic screwed up and eventually you will find what he did and you’ll have to live with the karma.
 

Iwannagofast

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Messages
129
also, “a premium price for a 302” ? It was a complete turn key long block with custom stainless headers and everything from the block to the distributor on it. Didn’t mention how I also had an aftermarket newer Edelbrock carb on it as well. You even called and texted me when you got the motor and you were super excited about how clean and complete it was and said thank you for everything. I know now though, it’s not worth selling petty parts and trying to help a fellow forum member out with a good deal on motor instead of just letting it go to garbage in a shop. I didn’t even post a price with the motor, you messaged me and said I know it’s not a lot for a motor but would you consider 800 and I said yes and threw in a ton of extra parts. I shipped this guy the motor on a $200 deposit and once it shipped to him he then sent me the other $600 dollars!
 

Iwannagofast

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Messages
129
The more I look at this the more childish I see this, what would it take to settle and to just delete this thread? Do you want another air breather? A second radiator? Let me know and I’m happy to accommodate.
 

needabronco

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 2, 2004
Messages
6,411
Loc.
Prescott/Farmington
So the OP buys a used engine, which I can only assume was sold 'as is', now he feels he was burned because the used engine has some wear and 'smokes'? Seriously! Anytime you buy used car parts you pretty much roll the dice if the parts are good or not. ESPECIALLY when you buy sight unseen. Whenever I buy a used engine, I ALWAYS assume it's a core and needs a rebuild, I frankly don't care if it has 100 miles on it and was rebuilt last week.

I don't have a dog in this, but I frankly think your barking up a tree here. I saw your Facebook post flaming the seller and here you are as well.

I'm not sure what your level of mechanical aptitude (I'm assuming low by your rants) is but, you need to do your homework and determine exactly what is the issue. A little smoke at startup is normal on a used/worn engine. If there was any oil in the cylinders at startup it will smoke for a minute or two (this is completely normal during start up of a used engine that was shipped, layed over at any point, or the seller (gasp) put some oil in the cylinders when he stored it so the rings wouldn't stick. Another symptom could be the rings are a little sticky from sitting, give them a few heat cycles and see if they free up. Worn valve stem seals will cause some smoke ($20 in parts here...), if the compression test was good, that's where I'd start. Frankly you should have done your homework and A, pulled the pan to inspect the bearings and see if the pan was full of sludge (smart buyer would have done that before they bought) B, pulled the heads and inspected the cylinder bores and valves (a great time to spend that $20 and replace those valve stem seals). So if you did that you would have spent, maybe $50 is gaskets and seals and you would have known the condition of your purchase. That would have been a great time to bring up your concerns to the seller, NOT after you started it and ran it to discover your 'smoke' issue. Frankly how does the seller know you didn't start the engine and run it without coolant or oil? Try that with a brand new engine and see if you'll get any warranty!

If the seller offered to refund your money and your still arguing about this, then what is the problem?

Good luck
 

Mcl

Newbie
Joined
Oct 5, 2016
Messages
38
RyleM not sure if you have Facebook but he is putting the same story on the FB bronco groups. I certainly wouldn't offer him anything else if I were you.
 

Tiko433

Contributor
I know just enough to be dangerous
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
1,797
Loc.
South West Florida
^^X2. I think that's well put. It's a risk buying a used motor. Unless I had personal knowledge of it I would plan on the Short block may need some attention. If it don't then I came out on the good end. So with all the other parts thrown in it would have to off set the total cost. He has offered to take it back even after a two month old transaction which I think is pushing it. If I was the seller and you contacted me that long after the purchase It would not sit well with me. I get finding time to get it installed can be a challenge but that not on the seller. I had a number of motor in and out on a weekend. Sorry to hear your both burnt over this. I think it's a good thing to put it out there it's something we all can learn from.
 

AZ69EB

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
680
First off, I have no skin in the game. Many good points were made by Needabronco, AZ73, and others. But, to come on Classic and flame a person in both classified and chat over a used $800 motor that runs with good compression, but smokes doesn’t make any sense. Also, the timeline from July to the end of October is way to long to cry about any used parts. The buyer could of flogged the Shixxt out of this motor before wanting a rebate. I have never bought anything, waited over 30 days and asked for a refund or a rebate. Not in personal dealings nor business dealings. Again, this doesn’t make any sense.

Then the buyer flames the seller on FB and maybe other sites doesn’t seem honorable nor respectful by any means. Tack and respect goes a long way with most MEN. I’m sorry to see the seller being put through this. All the people in the early bronco community have be more than helpful. I have given away and received way more than $800 in parts to other bronco brothers and sisters to help keep our toys on the trails.
But, I’m also sorry to see this type of childish behavior on this site. The buyers post should be removed. Again, honor, tack, and respect goes a long way in life. Where are you Jon?
 

jw0747

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
2,434
Loc.
San Antonio, TX
So the OP buys a used engine, which I can only assume was sold 'as is', now he feels he was burned because the used engine has some wear and 'smokes'? Seriously! Anytime you buy used car parts you pretty much roll the dice if the parts are good or not. ESPECIALLY when you buy sight unseen. Whenever I buy a used engine, I ALWAYS assume it's a core and needs a rebuild, I frankly don't care if it has 100 miles on it and was rebuilt last week.

I don't have a dog in this, but I frankly think your barking up a tree here. I saw your Facebook post flaming the seller and here you are as well.

I'm not sure what your level of mechanical aptitude (I'm assuming low by your rants) is but, you need to do your homework and determine exactly what is the issue. A little smoke at startup is normal on a used/worn engine. If there was any oil in the cylinders at startup it will smoke for a minute or two (this is completely normal during start up of a used engine that was shipped, layed over at any point, or the seller (gasp) put some oil in the cylinders when he stored it so the rings wouldn't stick. Another symptom could be the rings are a little sticky from sitting, give them a few heat cycles and see if they free up. Worn valve stem seals will cause some smoke ($20 in parts here...), if the compression test was good, that's where I'd start. Frankly you should have done your homework and A, pulled the pan to inspect the bearings and see if the pan was full of sludge (smart buyer would have done that before they bought) B, pulled the heads and inspected the cylinder bores and valves (a great time to spend that $20 and replace those valve stem seals). So if you did that you would have spent, maybe $50 is gaskets and seals and you would have known the condition of your purchase. That would have been a great time to bring up your concerns to the seller, NOT after you started it and ran it to discover your 'smoke' issue. Frankly how does the seller know you didn't start the engine and run it without coolant or oil? Try that with a brand new engine and see if you'll get any warranty!

If the seller offered to refund your money and your still arguing about this, then what is the problem?

Good luck

X2. I would recommend you stop whining about buying a used motor and take it to a good, reliable mechanic who can diagnose any problems and make recommendations. You and your "mechanic" might have the PCV value screwed up which causes smoke. Most any engine that has good compression numbers on all cylinders can't have too many problems. Seller has my sympathy attempting to deal with buyer who hasn't shown he is willing to make things right. Buyer has the engine which he doesn't want to return plus he wants a big discount. Is this reasonable and/or fair?
 
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