Got a new VW diesel swap option for us

rjrobin2002 · May 20, 2018

I was researching a 1.9 VW TDI swap for my dad's cj and found this ax15 adapter. So this means we could take a 175 diesel torque 1.9VW turbo engine at 1700rpm, adapt it to a ax15, then adapt the ax15 to our Dana 20 and rock and roll. They have came out with a manual injection pump for these 1.9 VW diesels, so no electronics are required. Would need to gear on the lower side if larger tires or have a stock Bronco, bit there are starting to be lots of happy TJ owners.

http://gastodiesel.tdconversions.com/adapter/

okie4570 · May 20, 2018

Would be an interesting swap!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CWiPXq0RAE

ntsqd · May 21, 2018

A friend had one w/a mech IP conversion in a Toyota 4x pick-up. He couldn't keep it cool under boost. It eventually stuck a piston. Now he's putting a Toyota tD in the truck.

I think an OM617 is a better fit to the EB's size & weight.

rjrobin2002 · May 21, 2018

I
There a tons of mods where people double the hp and torque with mods.

ntsqd · May 21, 2018

Yeah, and then you end up in the same place that my friend was in, can't keep it cool because you're pushing so hard on the engine.

The power rating for these engines isn't expecting to need that power except in brief spurts, and in a light pass vehicle, not nearly all of the time in a heavy EB. The sustainable, long term power output of these engines is a lot lower than their peak output. Even on something like the Eisenhower Pass (sp?) these engines in a light car won't need to output near max but for a few seconds here and there for passing. Put this same engine in an EB (or yota p'up as they weigh about the same) and go drive over that pass. You'll be asking for power output much closer to the peak output for the whole drive. Right up until it over-heats. I watched my friend battle this for quite a while. Not worth the trouble. Put an engine this size in a Samurai sized vehicle.

Better to start out with an engine that is a more robust design for its OE power output, i.e. less highly stressed from the start, and modify that to the power output desired. Overall you'll end up with a lower stressed engine that is easier to keep cool and isn't very temperamental.

cldonley · May 21, 2018

There's no replacement for displacement...

ntsqd · May 21, 2018

Oh I don't know about that. A turbo IS a great equalizer, but chose the engine with care.

tirewater · May 21, 2018

ntsqd said:
A friend had one w/a mech IP conversion in a Toyota 4x pick-up. He couldn't keep it cool under boost. It eventually stuck a piston. Now he's putting a Toyota tD in the truck.

I think an OM617 is a better fit to the EB's size & weight.

Here's some mileage claims for the OM617 in gwagens:

https://clubgwagen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2265&p=12719&hilit=om617#p12719

Honestly, I'm not sure giving up drivability for a few extra mpg is worth it. A friend did a om617 swap into his gwagen - ultimately it wasn't that great of a highway cruising engine at today's speeds.

From cursory glances, it seems it would be like driving the 200 inline 6, with a few extra mpg.

rjrobin2002 · May 21, 2018

I agree it's on the smaller side and was looking at it for my dad's 1900lb cj. Then I saw 4000lb TJs were running them and thought I would pass along.

ntsqd · May 21, 2018

A diesel swap is a more complex swap than most think due to needing to consider the gearing and probably change everything to have both decent highway speed and decent crawl ratio. Classically a diesel has a narrower power band than does a gasser, so more gear options need to be included. I've heard of guys putting a GearVendors OD behind the OD trans (= compound OD) that they're running in a 6BT swap, and some of the CTD guys do this too.

CraigS · May 22, 2018

I'm sure they all have their perfect application, but what is the purpose of the vehicle? Trailered in trail vehicle for short runs. VW engine might be just the ticket. Heavy hauling camping vehicle driven 200 miles to the trailhead? Maybe not so much.

74BroncoCO · May 24, 2018

I'm thinking the 1.9 simply isn't big/brute enough for our EB's.

Now the 3.0d in my wife's X5 would be a monster, but it's got so much electronics that it'd be a nightmare. Youtube features a few swaps into nissan patrols.

Broncobowsher · May 24, 2018

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Small diesels are great in small cars. A Bronco isn't a small car. Rolling drag, aero drag, weight. All go severely against you.

Now a low speed crawler, just about any engine will work, and this will be fine for that.

sykanr0ng · May 24, 2018

That engine would work much better in a Suzuki Samurai, where it would have both more displacement than the original engine and being a diesel going for it.

ntsqd · May 24, 2018

ntsqd said:
......
Put an engine this size in a Samurai sized vehicle. ....

sykanr0ng said:
That engine would work much better in a Suzuki Samurai, where it would have both more displacement than the original engine and being a diesel going for it.

There's a theme in here.

I have the VW tD, the R-150 + Marlin Doubler, the Yota axles. I just need a Sami tub and to build a frame, in my spare time...

EB70 · May 26, 2018

Thanks for this post. I have an "alternative" early Bronco I have been working on for awhile now. Through some trading etc. I ended up with a complete VW TDI engine and adaptors etc.

I've been on the fence on swapping it. Most of the people are running Jeeps or Toyotas with the TDI. I think use is the issue here. 32's and driving around town with an occasional trip down the road is fine. Crawling is great. Good idea.

My use would be 36-38 inch tires and 60 MPH for 25 miles at a time. I'm still researching it, but even geared etc. with the frontal area of the EB it would likely be too much.

The TDI swapper guys are pretty passionate and persuasive about the benefits. I do think though that the size of the vehicle etc. and tire size are pretty crucial.

Not to tick anyone off here, but one of the motivations for a diesel swap for me at least is the MPG concerns. I am not hearing for me at least much good news about OM617 swaps. Better than gas for sure, but not real impressive.

Just my opinion here, but I think it is best to leave the EB alone and swap a 4BT in it. Same mileage as some other options, but way more power and you don't need to engineer the whole vehicle around an engine.

ntsqd · May 26, 2018

The OM617 is certainly an old school diesel engine. No way are you going to get chipped PSD-like, CTD-like, or DMAX-like power out of it. Even leaned on hard the VW tdi will not be much more than a mild 617, and as a significantly lighter weight and duty engine that makes it a hand grenade. Don't know, but wouldn't surprise me if leaning hard on a 617 is also not a good idea.

The 617's replacement, the higher performing OM603 (I *think* that is the designation) has an issue with the cylinder head cracking. I know that there is a particular rare cyl head that fixed the problem, but I'm not up to date on all of the particulars of that engine.

A friend makes the case that the Izusu (sp?) 3.9L 4cyl turbo-diesel is a better engine than the 4BT. He is putting one in his '48 Power Wagon. I suspect both will require significant lift and mods to make fit and achieve a large front travel range.

EB70 · May 26, 2018

I really liked the 617. Not in love with them, but I do feel that they are probably more reliable etc. and certainly more simple than the 1.9.

My TDI is the AHU from about 98. I pulled it out of a Toyota 4Runner. It looked like a mad science experiment with all the plumbing and wiring.

I'm still looking into swapping it into my EB project, and I am considering the pump swap to mechanical etc.

But the thought of spending cash, and most of the summer swapping it just seems a bit sketchy for an uncertain outcome.

My problem, and this goes back many years, is that I presume every 4x4 needs at least a 35" tire. Just opinion and practicality for my location I guess.

I do think a TDI could be a viable option in a stripper 66, with a roadster top and smaller tires, no lift etc. Probably would work if you drove it mellowly and kept 60 MPH for reasonable distances.

rjrobin2002 · May 26, 2018

"I do think a TDI could be a viable option in a stripper 66, with a roadster top and smaller tires, no lift etc. Probably would work if you drove it mellowly and kept 60 MPH for reasonable distances."

I agree, gear it with like 4.11 or 4.56 since you will have OD with the AX15, all stock Bronco with stock tires is the way i would run it.

ntsqd · May 26, 2018

Typically diesels don't need as much torque multiplication as gassers do. I'm not sure w/o doing the math that gears that deep are necessary. Also have to keep in mind that they don't rev past about 5k ever.

I did a rough gearing layout for a 1.6L VW td powered Sami and for 33's it looked like 3.73's were about right.

Got a new VW diesel swap option for us

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