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Clutch slipping

agboy91

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Ok, had this happen to me this weekend. As I drove my 72 on mild on road driving, I noticed what seems to be like a clutch slipping. I have a 5.0 swap with the M5OD and when I shifted into 3rd or 4th and stepped on the gas pretty good, I noticed that it seemed like I had an auto trans and it was kicking down a gear, engine would rev up but speed would not accelerate to match engine rev. it seams my clutch could be slipping. I have the hydro clutch not mechanical. The clutch is nearly brand new. It does not seem to slip in 1st or 2nd and seems to slip more prevalently when it gets hotter. Any thoughts on what could be happening here and a simple fix. Otherwise I guess I drop the trans and have a look. Thanks.
 

DirtDonk

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Not sure, but it sounds like it could be out of adjustment and was almost at the ragged edge of slipping to begin with. After some use and when heated up then, it runs out and slips.
Your description sure sounds like the clutch slipping anyway. I'm just not sure how the hydraulic ones would work in that regard though. They're not even adjustable, are they?

Depends on which type you have maybe. What are you running? Stock Ford hydraulics? Something from the aftermarket?
Is it a hydraulic throwout bearing, or a hydraulically actuated clutch fork?

Paul
 

Crush

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M5 only has internal slave and there is. No adjustment. U may be low on fluid or have a mismatched master/slave cylinder issue. No way to know for sure if they match of not but hou can get the part number off the master you have and see what it goes to. And then make sure you get the slave to match

Other problem may be a leaky rear main seal getting letting oil get on the clutch
 
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agboy91

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Thanks Crush, it's a new rear main and I don't see and oil drip nor to I smell hot/burnt oil. The M5 is out of a 97 F150 so I went back with a master/slave that was in it. With put it together I couldn't get it to bleed and found out I had a leaking slave. I put a new one in but didn't know they needed to match. Think I ordered it on amazon to fit the 97 f150.

DirtDonk, to my knowledge they aren't adjustable. Guess I'll take it to a shop or just drop the trans for the second time. Thx.
 

Crush

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Ag. There is no need to bleed. If tou bled it then that is your slipping problem. They self bleed. You have to pump the shit out if them. Mine took abot 25 min of pumping but when we did deanos it took about an hour of pumping. Also if tou are using a diaphragm pressure plate that makes the clutch activate closer to the top of the throw and if you are using the old three finger pressure plate then that activates at the bottom of the throw and is much stiffer on your leg. I have used both
 

DirtDonk

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All the Ford ones I've seen (just a few though) have been the no-bleed type. But to my way of thinking, if there is a bleeder in the system, it's meant to be used as one. So if you have a bleeder fitting in yours, I see no harm in using it.
Unless some shop manual somewhere says it's for something else, then I can't see how you would have hurt anything.

Paul
 

Crush

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mine and deanos both had a bleeder. when we bead them it never would get a hard pedal. when I read online to not bleed it and pump the crap out of it so any air would bubble to the resovior then add fluid as needed it actually worked. i think the bleeder is so when you fill it you can open it then pour the fluid in until it runs out and then shut the bleeder and top off then when you pump it the air works out of the slave and up to the res. this is the only thing i could figure because it confused me too.
 

DirtDonk

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Makes sense. Strange designs, but they seem to work once they're set up. I was kind of surprised the first time I installed one and it just said that it would self-bleed. Liked the concept, but was skeptical until it worked.

Paul
 
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agboy91

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Thanks for the discussion. I'll try to open the bleed screw tomorrow and see if fluid runs out. I also noticed that I only have to push the peddle in about 2-3" to get the clutch to disengage. Maybe my master/slave is mismatched? How far do your peddles travel to disengage the clutch? Thanks.
 

DirtDonk

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Not sure about the ratio, but if my clutch disengaged that soon I would suspect that it's also not being allowed to fully engage. Which would obviously result in slippage.
Anyway to tweak the mechanical part of the linkage?
Or more importantly at this phase, any way to verify that the linkage is fully releasing when you let up on the pedal? How much play is there between the throwout bearing and the face of the clutch cover when it's released?

Paul
 

Joe473

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Not sure about the ratio, but if my clutch disengaged that soon I would suspect that it's also not being allowed to fully engage. Which would obviously result in slippage.
Anyway to tweak the mechanical part of the linkage?
Or more importantly at this phase, any way to verify that the linkage is fully releasing when you let up on the pedal? How much play is there between the throwout bearing and the face of the clutch cover when it's released?

Paul
Quick question to the OP. Did you install the block plate behind the flywheel. Leaving that out could result in the slave putting pressure on the fingers.

Did you measure from face of block plate to fingers and from bellhousing to face of throw out bearing? This is recomended even in factory applications and there is a spec on allowable clearance but typically you find clearance to big and end up adding shims.

Air in the system would not make the clutch slip but the wrong slave for trans or wrong clutch flywheel could be placing pressure on fingers. On the pedal linkage make sure you have some free play to the upper stop and are not adjusted to push in master.

Also I think you mentioned the first slave failing. Did it leak on the clutch. Did you clean the pressure plate and replace disc when you replaced slave. When you bled did you use a hose to prevent contamination of the disc? Have you checked the new slave to make sure it is not leaking? Have you confirmed linkage is not over extending slave and clutch on release? Some adjustment or use of pedal stop may be required to prevent damage to slave and/or pressure plate.

Last when is it slipping? Hard launch? What are Engine and drivetrain specs? That clutch will not last if used behind a 400+ ft lb beast launching hard at peak torque with 3.50 gears and 35's.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
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agboy91

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Thanks Joe473. Engine is the Explorer 5.0 stock with shorty headers. Trans is the M5OD. 3:50 gears with 33's for tires. Slipping is in 3rd and 4th not at hard launch. I don't recall a block plate on the flywheel? I can't recall measured but I did follow the Haynes manual. I'll have to check that as well. When the slave leaked I replaced and slave and cleaned the disks but did not go with new as these were brand new. Sounds like a drop of the trans is in the near future. Thanks.
 

Crush

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block plate he is referring to is the dust shield that goes between the engine and trans behind the flywheel. slipping under load like you say in third and fourth is a sign of bad clutch. maybe when you got fluid on it before it soaked up too much and now needs replaced
 
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agboy91

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Ok, the block plate is on then. I figure it is from the fluid when the slave leaked. I'll pull it apart as soon as I make some space in the shop. Got my sons 76 getting ready for paint. And my top in prep for paint. Plenty to do. Thank all.
 
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agboy91

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Update on the clutch slipping. All problems usually have pretty simple solution. Basically the clutch rod was to long. When I fab'r the rod for my Hyd MC I guess I got it to long and when I tightened it to the firewall I induced some compression of the clutch which caused the clutch to slip. I put a few washers between the MC and the fire wall and problem solved. Banks for the help and suggestions. Glad I don't have to drop the trans again.
 

Crush

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You really ned to remove those washers and shorten the rod. the firewall flexes anyway when you engage the clutch so the extra leverage with the reduced surface of the entire masrter cylinder will more than likely cause cracking around the mounting surface. when i got my master from the junkyard it had a reinforcement plate on the inside of the firewall and i used it. woeks really nice but i am thinking about putting another plate on the outside.
 
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Slednut10

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Or you could add a reinforcement plate to the firewall to replace the washers.
 

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