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Steering Issues

1strodeo

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Sep 15, 2016
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On the advice of a senior member I’m starting a thread to help with my steering.

I bought it pretty much the way you see it except I added 35” tires on 15x7.5 Bronco wheels. I only drove it around the block a couple times on the bald 31’s it came with but I don’t recall the steering being an issue.

Basically what’s happening is I’m going down the road 20-25 mph and it either wants to go left or right...in other words I’m constantly turning the wheel a foot to the left or a foot to the right, no happy medium

Steering wheel has about 6” play, after adjustment front wheels are at 1/8” toe in

Just thought I’d start out with pics to see if anything jumps out, pretty sure it has standard JBG 2.5” lift (their leveling kit) thanks -Jeff
 

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B RON CO

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Hi, 6 inches of play is a lot of play in the steering wheel. Does it do that with the engine off? It is probably in the steering box. If all the other tie rod, pitman arm connections are tight, you could loosen the lock nut on the steering box and tighten the allen screw, but no more hen 2 or 3 turns tops. Somewhere there are directions for that, and if its been done already well, you can't just tighten it all you want.
So look for any parts being loose while a helper turns the wheel.
Are you sure the steering box was centered when the toe was set.
Did you lower the air pressure.
1/8 toe is not a lot of toe in. You could loosen the bolts on the tie rod sleeve and give it 1/2 a turn to see if that improves the steering situation.
Did you get an alignment with the caster, camber, and toe numbers? The numbers, especially caster, are good to know right about now.
Good luck
 

Rustytruck

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Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
Whats the dimension from the top of the axle tube to the frame on each side of the front axle?
 

Apogee

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Can you get somebody to wiggle the steering wheel while you inspect your tie-rod ends, track bar pushings, etc? If those look good and tight, then I would look at your alignment numbers, particularly caster. Also, what are you running for PSI in your tires? Some tires will wander more than others, but pressure can play a large part in that, especially if you're over-inflated.
 
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1strodeo

1strodeo

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Good questions, tires are 45 PSI all around even though sidewall says 35 PSI Max (stupid Coscto) and driver side axle is 9 3/4" passenger side 10"
 

Rustytruck

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Messages
10,875
With 3 inches of lift has anything been done with a drop trac bar mount. Dropped steering arm? Any form of castor correction like 7 degree C bushings.
 
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OP
1strodeo

1strodeo

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Joined
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Messages
3,596
Loc.
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Hi, 6 inches of play is a lot of play in the steering wheel. Does it do that with the engine off? It is probably in the steering box. If all the other tie rod, pitman arm connections are tight, you could loosen the lock nut on the steering box and tighten the allen screw, but no more hen 2 or 3 turns tops. Somewhere there are directions for that, and if its been done already well, you can't just tighten it all you want.
So look for any parts being loose while a helper turns the wheel.
Are you sure the steering box was centered when the toe was set.
Did you lower the air pressure.
1/8 toe is not a lot of toe in. You could loosen the bolts on the tie rod sleeve and give it 1/2 a turn to see if that improves the steering situation.
Did you get an alignment with the caster, camber, and toe numbers? The numbers, especially caster, are good to know right about now.
Good luck

my manual says 1/16 minimum to 1/4 maximum toe in, so I figured 1/8 was good...i'll try out the steering box adjustment tomorrow, no idea if its been done in the past
 
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OP
1strodeo

1strodeo

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Sep 15, 2016
Messages
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With 3 inches of lift has anything been done with a drop trac bar mount. Dropped steering arm? Any form of castor correction like 7 degree C bushings.

No but i can tell by looking at it that it could use a drop pitman arm
 

bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,916
Best way to get your pressure right is to rub a wide chalk line across the tread.
Drive it a little...just a little then check how much chalk is rubbed off. Keep lowering air pressure until you are laying down most of the tread. You will know you're getting even tread wear "and" a much much better ride than 45 psi. In fact 45 psi could be a large part of your problem.
Don't be surprised if your rear tires are in the teens.

I am running 26 psi in the front and 19 psi in the rear. I could easily go lower ....

Anyway test and tune. There will be points of diminishing returns. Like really low pressure rides great but handles horribly. Moderation is key.

Just re-read your OP. Wheels only 7.5" wide will make it tough to lay all of your tread down but you can improve things tremendously by lowering pressure,..."a lot", lol.
 
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1strodeo

1strodeo

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not installed, I run 1/8" toe all the time. for sure lower your tire pressure, also check the box to frame for movement.

I assume this box to frame check would be done with someone turning the wheels?

Best way to get your pressure right is to rub a wide chalk line across the tread.
Drive it a little...just a little then check how much chalk is rubbed off. Keep lowering air pressure until you are laying down most of the tread. You will know you're getting even tread wear "and" a much much better ride than 45 psi. In fact 45 psi could be a large part of your problem.
Don't be surprised if your rear tires are in the teens.

I am running 26 psi in the front and 19 psi in the rear. I could easily go lower ....

Anyway test and tune. There will be points of diminishing returns. Like really low pressure rides great but handles horribly. Moderation is key.

Just re-read your OP. Wheels only 7.5" wide will make it tough to lay all of your tread down but you can improve things tremendously by lowering pressure,..."a lot", lol.

Will do, think I'm fresh outta chalk though can I eyeball it? Yes I figured the -5" wheel to tire difference was worth mentioning...makes the tires taller than I'd prefer, may swap to 15x10 at some point to make em a little shorter and fatter, of course then I'll have to go through all this again ;D
 

WILDHORSES

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It's been mentioned but I'll reiterate, first things first what's the caster?

To little caster will always cause the problem you are describing. Once correct caster is established them move on to other things.

Drop pitman or not to drop pitman? I would do it but not without trac bar correction at the same time. Leave them both alone or drop them both but don't do only the pitman arm. That will just create another problem.

General observations about stock Bronco Saginaw boxes. 73-75 typically feels very loose and easy to steering. You steer a lot because it's almost 6 turns from one end to the other. 76-77 feels pretty good/normal, not like a newer car but closer. Either way as was said they are often loose on the frame even after the bolts are tight.:-[ Very common to have slight frame damage, especially if the rigs been wheeled hard. Check and repair as needed.

Good luck!

Jim
 
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OP
1strodeo

1strodeo

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Joined
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Messages
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Loc.
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It's been mentioned but I'll reiterate, first things first what's the caster?

To little caster will always cause the problem you are describing. Once correct caster is established them move on to other things.

Drop pitman or not to drop pitman? I would do it but not without trac bar correction at the same time. Leave them both alone or drop them both but don't do only the pitman arm. That will just create another problem.

General observations about stock Bronco Saginaw boxes. 73-75 typically feels very loose and easy to steering. You steer a lot because it's almost 6 turns from one end to the other. 76-77 feels pretty good/normal, not like a newer car but closer. Either way as was said they are often loose on the frame even after the bolts are tight.:-[ Very common to have slight frame damage, especially if the rigs been wheeled hard. Check and repair as needed.

Good luck!

Jim

Can I measure caster with standard tools? I have an angle gauge I got for my pinion angle on the drive shaft awhile back (on the 66) for what it’s worth.

Since this rig is a mystery can anyone tell anything from the stampings or tag on the steering box?

I did deflate the tires to about 30 front 26 back but it’s raining pretty good here and I got no top, won’t be road testing today thanks!
 

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DirtDonk

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I bought it pretty much the way you see it except I added 35” tires on 15x7.5 Bronco wheels.

Is this the '72? Or another one?
Are they 12.50" wide tires?

Steering wheel has about 6” play, after adjustment front wheels are at 1/8” toe in

As mentioned, too much play. But don't adjust anything in the box yet because you're no longer centered. And centered is where the adjustment is made, and where it makes a difference.
It might need some adjustment. It might not. It need help, or it might just be worn out.
But won't know until the other things are dealt with or further testing is made.

Just the angles with increase your steering "play" and the angle will also have put the box off of it's center point. That point in the box is tighter than the rest. Once you're off of it, the box is in fact looser. Not as loose as yours is hopefully! But the two things together will certainly add to the play.
And the pressure will increase the dartiness of the tires, adding to the perception of play and the lack of response to your steering inputs.

Agree the 1/8" toe is fine for now. But also agree that there's nothing wrong with testing different settings. Everyone likes something else, and every tire/wheel combo acts different with different lifts on Broncos.

Just thought I’d start out with pics to see if anything jumps out

In your last pic, the rubber boot is on wrong. I think it's on the wrong side of the firewall, but haven't messed with one in a long time. Someone here will know and have pics.

pretty sure it has standard JBG 2.5” lift (their leveling kit) thanks -Jeff

As someone pointed out, you're sporting a 3" lift now. It could just be that your springs are a bit tall (how old are they?) but Broncos are not the most consistent either, so hard to say.
A 2.5" is a bit "proud" for just leveling a Bronco out. Not many sit 2.5" high in the rear in the first place. Even with the hard tops off they only go up so far. How does yours sit now? Is it fairly level? What springs are in the back?
I'm a fan of using dropped pitman arms and trackbar brackets even on just 2.5" of lift, but they're pretty much mandatory on anything higher. And yours obviously has way too much angle on the links, as the others already pointed out.

is there a way to tell what degree C bushings were used?

Not easily. Takes a lot of looking at different versions for you to see the difference once installed, but it can be done.
Otherwise, there are no markings to speak of on the bushings.
You can look at your pinion as well, and if it's still pointing up more towards the driveshaft, they're likely 2 degree bushings. If you see it pointed more level to the ground, they could be 4's or 7's.
But get that reading when you can, and you'll know whether it's going to be an issue or not. If you've got caster numbers above 3 degrees positive, you're in a good range and likely have the correct bushing. If less than 2 however, you're probably going to need more.
How much more, or how to get it, depends on what is found otherwise.
If you don't get consistent readings from your gauge, it's not a bad idea to put it on an alignment rack to get a full printout, or screen shot of the readings from their computer. This way it's a known commodity and you can work with it.

I assume this box to frame check would be done with someone turning the wheels?

Correct.
This test is always done with the full weight of the truck on the ground. Helper does not have to move the steering wheel through it's entire range either. Just a half a turn in each direction is enough for the main test. Never hurts to do at least a couple of rounds with the full turn each way, but it's not needed for most of the testing.
If the box is loose, or if the frame is cracked, this is often the only way to find out.

Will do, think I'm fresh outta chalk though can I eyeball it?

Yep! You can gauge the inflation by the dirt/dust pattern and where it wears off on the tread. If you can see clean area running down the middle, but still dirty out towards the sides, you can let some more air out until the wear mark reaches just almost to the edge.
It's pretty precise on the rear tires, given the way they just sit there and roll straight (hopefully) but harder to gauge on the fronts when you have more camber and have to steer them too.
But you can get a basic feel for them too.

Yes I figured the -5" wheel to tire difference was worth mentioning...makes the tires taller than I'd prefer, may swap to 15x10 at some point to make em a little shorter and fatter, of course then I'll have to go through all this again ;D

Yep, every change nets more changes.
But most of what you're looking at is a perception of change. If you put three identical tires next to each other, one on a 7" wheel and one on an 8" wheel, and the other on a 10" wheel, the difference in height would be very hard to measure.
Most sidewalls on 15" tires flex so much that the width of the tread and the overall height are not measurably changed. Only the sidewall width is changed, and the "bulge" that most people note is not really a bulge at all, but just a larger difference between the overall section width and the rim width. Again, perception more than an actual change.
But hey, sometimes it is all about looks.

However, for our discussion the width of the wheel does have a definite effect on how much pressure your setup is going to like, and how things feel when driving.
The good news is that the narrow wheels are usually very good when dialed in.

Can I measure caster with standard tools? I have an angle gauge I got for my pinion angle on the drive shaft awhile back (on the 66) for what it’s worth.

Sure. There is a procedure for checking caster that involves steering back and forth and comparing angles, but you'll have to make the gauge fit squarely on the wheel. Not the end of the hub knob, the sidewall of the tire, or offset on the wheel somewhere.
But it's very doable.

Since this rig is a mystery can anyone tell anything from the stampings or tag on the steering box?

Looks like a stock box, but maybe someone else knows the numbers for sure. I only know it resembles a Bronco steering box physically.
What year Bronco?

I did deflate the tires to about 30 front 26 back but it’s raining pretty good here and I got no top, won’t be road testing today thanks![/QUOTE]

Good start. The 45 they saddled you with was certainly over the top and they should be concerned about their techs and how they check their work. Or at least about their gauges!
The narrower wheel means that most likely you can get away with less pressure for the same result than you would with a wider wheel. But only testing will tell for sure.
But you're off to a good start.

Paul
 

Bronco Maniac

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Looks like you maybe have relatively new C Bushings. You could also look at the Wild Horses video for installing C Bushings. They explain very clearly how to install them. After watching the video and correcting the installation on a friends bronco, I looked at mine that the PO installed. With mine being 7 degree, you could tell they were installed incorrectly. Reinstalled and the bronco drives great. Just reading on this site, it seems it is common for people to install incorrectly.

I do not know if this is related to the six inch right and left corrections.

This week while driving to town, I thought how nice it was to drive with just my arm resting on top of the steering wheel instead of both hands and scared I was going to run off the road.

Good luck, as I know it is extremely frustrating.
 
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1strodeo

1strodeo

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Thanks all, had a break in the rain and went for another (short lived) test drive, man what a difference that tire pressure makes, not perfect of course but huge difference. Not completely sure how much difference as halfway through the ride I got stuck in 1st gear, dammit!

Not 100% sure on this but pretty sure I should have at least like 1/16” clearance between the shift arms? I mean they are touching! Is this maybe the main reason for the column rebuilds (or trans swaps) I’ve read about?

Best part of the drive though was this kid on a bike maybe 12-13, positive he’d never seen an EB before, jaw dropped, handle bars suddenly the only apparent means of propulsion, seemed a bit shocked that I’d wave to him, next time around the block I see him (by now I’m not so cool as I’m stuck in 1st gear) he stops the bike and waves a bit more emphatically, man that’s the good stuff. That hit home, that was so me 30ish years ago, I think I may have recruited a future CB member ;D
 

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DirtDonk

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Yep, good times makin' a kid's day.

And yep too, that rear arm looks either like it got a little bent, or maybe it's all due to a worn out spacer or thrust washer (https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/Bronco_Stock_Column_Parts).
Is it the angle of the camera, or is the gap between the two arms a little uneven? If so, worn parts are at least as likely as a bent arm. A little more probably.

Good luck. Gotta' stay lookin' cool around the neighborhood after all.

Paul
 
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1strodeo

1strodeo

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thanks that pic is taken pretty much over the top of the shift arms, and yeah i though it looked pretty bent
 
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1strodeo

1strodeo

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Yep, good times makin' a kid's day.

And yep too, that rear arm looks either like it got a little bent, or maybe it's all due to a worn out spacer or thrust washer (https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/Bronco_Stock_Column_Parts).
Is it the angle of the camera, or is the gap between the two arms a little uneven? If so, worn parts are at least as likely as a bent arm. A little more probably.

Good luck. Gotta' stay lookin' cool around the neighborhood after all.

Paul

your link goes to WH page, but which part are you referring to 2593, 95 or 97?
 
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