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Old 07/19/18, 04:55 PM   #16
twood9mm
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Originally Posted by broncodriver99 View Post
LOL. Free advice is rarely "Professional". Rusty did offer good advice though. Some sort of inspection is going to be necessary if you want to know exactly what you have. Unless, of course you just have had 5 bad mechanics, which is quite possible these days.

That said, I am having a hard time understanding why they won't give you any information on the build, it is yours now. Although it sounds like maybe you only talked to the one guy.

Have they checked that your rockers are properly adjusted?

It does sound like it is time to pull at least the heads. You will be able to check the cylinders and heads for the cost of a set of gaskets. You can also pull the water pump, timing cover, and timing chain gear and see if there is any info printed on the cam.
You are correct that its free advise. Not trying to beat up on anyone. I'm just lost on this issue. Only did a visual on the rockers without seeing anything that appeared wrong (shop did but I was there). You have a good recommendation. Ill explore it. and thank you
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Old 07/19/18, 05:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Rustytruck View Post
So your off on a bad foot. Someone sells you a used Bronco that the engine is running poorly and you start out bad mouthing the company you have no personal dealings with. Then you post that 5 shops can't fix or find what the actual problem is. Slaming the first company isn't fair. You bought a problem its your problem not theirs. Take it up with the seller.

With such low miles pull the engine out and do a full tear down of the engine. Suspect everything. Unless the bores are scored parts to repair should not be too expensive. 7/8 are a problem, focus on there, starting at the pistons and work your way up from there. 2 or 3 days labor if you use someone that knows what they are doing. My guess a grand should do it. Then you have to take it some place to be properly tuned with someone who knows what the hell they are doing.
Thanks. Really wasn't trying to bad mouth the vender but they are just being very unhelpful. HAving the build specs would help me a lot. That said, I will keep your recommendation in mind vs "new" rebuilt motor". Appreciate it.
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Old 07/19/18, 05:05 PM   #18
twood9mm
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I'm still waiting for what "won't idle" means to the original poster.
Sorry, just getting used to this forum. I have clarified it further on but here it is again: idles in neutral ok. In gear, it idles for 10 seconds then chocks and almost dies. This cycles on and off when in gear. idle is set at about 1100 in neutral to try to get it to stay lit in gear.
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Old 07/19/18, 05:13 PM   #19
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Is the motor sealed with a rebuild tag? Allot of professional re-builders will adhere tags for warranty verification. When I bought my motors from ATK engines they had such a tag and could trace its build.

1974, stock 302, C4, BFG KM2 33x12.5x15, 8in rim, detroit rear, trutrac front 4.11 gearing, Warflairs,2.5" lift, chevy disc conversion, Hydraboost, owned since Christmas Eve 1977
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Old 07/19/18, 06:56 PM   #20
twood9mm
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Is the motor sealed with a rebuild tag? Allot of professional re-builders will adhere tags for warranty verification. When I bought my motors from ATK engines they had such a tag and could trace its build.
I didn't know that but haven't seen one I will look for it. Any ideas where it could be placed? By the way, would you recommend ATK? I have been looking at them just in case.
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Old 07/19/18, 11:25 PM   #21
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Its usually close to the head on the block. My experience with Atk was good with a Ford 302. Had an issue with a Toyota engine where the 6 piece main thrust bearing was assembled wrong. When I took the problem to them it took about a week and a half for them to ship me a replacement engine. But they stepped up and honored their warrenty. Read and understand their warrenty before you buy. It has serious limitations for self installers. They follow their warrenty to the letter. I would buy from them again for a stock engine. I would not buy a performance engine from them. For the money spent for performance I want to start with known good cores and buy exactly what I want and do my own assembly.

1974, stock 302, C4, BFG KM2 33x12.5x15, 8in rim, detroit rear, trutrac front 4.11 gearing, Warflairs,2.5" lift, chevy disc conversion, Hydraboost, owned since Christmas Eve 1977
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Old 07/19/18, 11:37 PM   #22
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1100 rpm in gear stopped is loading the converter and building heat in your tranny fluid. Your also into the fuel inrichment slots in the carb. I suspect you are dealing with a vacuum leak issue and covering up for it with extra fuel enrichment. At idle pull the hose off the vacuum canister on the distributor and see if there is vacuum on the hose. Do you know what the timing is set at?

1974, stock 302, C4, BFG KM2 33x12.5x15, 8in rim, detroit rear, trutrac front 4.11 gearing, Warflairs,2.5" lift, chevy disc conversion, Hydraboost, owned since Christmas Eve 1977
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Old 07/19/18, 11:48 PM   #23
73azbronco
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background on your c4? rebuilt? stock?

Modulator leaking?

What is the vacuum reading right before it starts to stumble and die? Does it start to die then vacuum drop, or does vacuum start to drop then stumble?


Does it rev when in idle? No stumble on rev?


What the heck is a turnkey rebuild?

73 Explorer , 347stroker, NV4500 D20, Quadrajet spreadbore with manual altitude compensation, 4.1 ARB, Moser CTM Currie, 78 FSB disks, 76 Tbird calipers. 3.5 WH suspension lift, 2" Body lift for NV clearance.

Build here:http://classicbroncos.com/forums/sho...69#post1759569
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Old 07/20/18, 04:59 AM   #24
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Hi, so you say it idles fine in neutral, with 20" vacuum. When you start it in the driveway does it good? Does it rev up and seem normal? Can you lower the idle to 700 rpm in park?
If it runs good in park, and revs up, and doesn't shake all over with 20" of vacuum I would think the problem could be in the tranny.
I am no tranny guy but maybe the trouble is in the torque converter, input shaft or front pump. Maybe one of the tranny experts can say if problems here could cause your problem.
Good luck
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Old 07/20/18, 11:55 AM   #25
twood9mm
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Originally Posted by Rustytruck View Post
1100 rpm in gear stopped is loading the converter and building heat in your tranny fluid. Your also into the fuel inrichment slots in the carb. I suspect you are dealing with a vacuum leak issue and covering up for it with extra fuel enrichment. At idle pull the hose off the vacuum canister on the distributor and see if there is vacuum on the hose. Do you know what the timing is set at?
1100 in netural but in gear it drops to about 700 (when it does idle for 10 seconds). Did try the dist vacuum line and it has vacuum. timing is 10 degress
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Old 07/20/18, 11:59 AM   #26
twood9mm
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Originally Posted by 73azbronco View Post
background on your c4? rebuilt? stock?

Modulator leaking?

What is the vacuum reading right before it starts to stumble and die? Does it start to die then vacuum drop, or does vacuum start to drop then stumble?


Does it rev when in idle? No stumble on rev?


What the heck is a turnkey rebuild?
C4 rebuilt. Vacuum does not move, stays at 20 in netural or in gear (drive). "turnkey rebuilt" is for rebuilt ready to drop in (all components there), not a long block.
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Old 07/20/18, 12:01 PM   #27
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Distributor vacuum line at idle should have no vacuum on it. You need to move this line at the carb to the ported vacuum port. Most distributors are set up for ported vacuum. Check the instructions on the Holly carb you have. You will have to reset timing again. This makes a big difference especially at idle. 700 rpm in gear is good.

1974, stock 302, C4, BFG KM2 33x12.5x15, 8in rim, detroit rear, trutrac front 4.11 gearing, Warflairs,2.5" lift, chevy disc conversion, Hydraboost, owned since Christmas Eve 1977
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Old 07/20/18, 12:02 PM   #28
twood9mm
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Originally Posted by B RON CO View Post
Hi, so you say it idles fine in neutral, with 20" vacuum. When you start it in the driveway does it good? Does it rev up and seem normal? Can you lower the idle to 700 rpm in park?
If it runs good in park, and revs up, and doesn't shake all over with 20" of vacuum I would think the problem could be in the tranny.
I am no tranny guy but maybe the trouble is in the torque converter, input shaft or front pump. Maybe one of the tranny experts can say if problems here could cause your problem.
Good luck
Didn't think of that. It starts right up and seems normal. Can lower rpm to 700 in park but then it drops when in gear. torque converter is stock.
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Old 07/20/18, 04:05 PM   #29
twood9mm
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Originally Posted by Rustytruck View Post
Distributor vacuum line at idle should have no vacuum on it. You need to move this line at the carb to the ported vacuum port. Most distributors are set up for ported vacuum. Check the instructions on the Holly carb you have. You will have to reset timing again. This makes a big difference especially at idle. 700 rpm in gear is good.
Good suggestion. I called Holley and downloaded the instruction manual. However, mine is connected correctly. I misspoke about the vacuum at idle to the distributor. My fuel tank is new as are the fuel lines but Just for the heck of it, I am going to change the fuel filter. I decided to make another attempt at a local shop. They are a well know dyno shop thats been there for over 40 years. They will put scopes on it and hopefully, we can narrow this down. Cant get in for a week but I will let all know the results.
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Old 07/27/18, 10:15 AM   #30
twood9mm
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Help with new 302 that wont idle, cont. Mystery solved

Quote:
Originally Posted by B RON CO View Post
Hi, been thinking about the idle and I keep coming up with a couple of things. Besides young guys mostly don't know or want to know about carbs, I would triple check the basic stuff. First, check and make sure the high idle cam on the choke side is completely off. Next remove and plug any vacuum hoses from the carb and intake manifold to eliminate these as a source of a vacuum leak. Next remove the carb and all the gaskets and spacers and make sure they are all right side up and lined up properly. Make sure the holes in the gaskets are not hanging up the throttle plates. There should be no sealer used. I've re- used carb gaskets before that should not be a problem, unless a gasket or spacer is ruined or cracked. Just snug down the carb nuts, medium snug. No muscle power. If you take the carb off you can verify the throttle plates are completely closed, and in the transfer slot area in the venturis. Good luck
Finally solved the mystery. Went to a well know (40 yrs) dyno shop that specializes in classics. You were the closest to the solution and by that I mean the carb was bad. It was supposed to be a brand new holley truck avenger however, we discovered that someone had tried to modified it for whatever reason. Dyno shop said it wasn't a factory job so builder or seller(?). Idle circuits were really messed up. One bowl didn't have any fuel in it at all. Four other "Bronco" shops and one dyne shop didn't find it.I have a new fitech I was going to install but didn't want to try that until the mystery was solved. Turns out, had I done so I would have saved a lot of money and time. Now, Im not sure if I will go the fitech route. Anyone have experience with the fitech?
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