Spindle lock ring stuck

77broncodriver · Aug 18, 2018

I’m in the process of replacing a broken axle shaft and I’ve ran into a problem where the lock ring that goes between the two spindle nuts somehow spun in there and is now not in the groove on the spindle...

I’ve tried getting it out for a couple hours now with no luck. Any ideas on how to break the ring so I can get the inner nut off the spindle?

On the other side, the pin was broken off the nut that goes into the lock ring. The ring is useless now but I threw it back in there anyways. Will I have any issues with putting the 2 nuts back on after somehow getting this out and not using a lock ring? Every time I open the front end up the pins are broken off anyways...

-Evan

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Attac · Aug 18, 2018

Evan,
That pin goes all the way through the nut. When you take the inner nut off you can drive the little pin out and peen the back of the hole to hold it in place. There should be no reason that the pin is sheared off if it is installed right and the outer nut is torqued down correctly. The two nuts and retainer ring should be all locked together and should not move independently. As for the retainer ring being spun around and locked up on the spindle... That's a tough one. Besides taking a die grinder or chisel and breaking the ring and spreading it out I don't have a good way of twisting it back to where it would come off.
Good luck and check the threads when you get it off. You might have to change spindle if threads are too bad
Chuck

DirtDonk · Aug 18, 2018

Yes. Don't do it!
You'll just have the same problem, only worse. They need to be a working set to do their job over time.
Can you drive it a few miles without the inner pin, or the lock ring? Sure. But can you drive it extensively, especially the way you used to going back and forth on the highway? Not a chance!
The farther you get without a catastrophic failure is just pure luck. But that's not something you can count on. Or stake your life on.
Fix it with the correct parts. They're cheap, and available.

To get the old one out, I admit that while I've seen this too, I've never had to fight one out either. Can you see the inner nut's notches? I can't from here, but if there is any chance you can still put the hub nut socket on there with the ring in position, that would do the trick.
Unscrew the inner nut and let it push the ring outward. Unfortunately, it's a very good chance that you already have buggered threads. And if not, it's an equally good chance that some will get buggered during the removal.

Something was wrong to begin with, as these things should never have this issue. Most don't in fact, but what causes it, other than perhaps incorrect installation, I don't really know.
I know you've done it quite a few times (or I assume you have) so figure you know the procedure. But you should review it and make sure you're doing it by the book.

Good luck. I hope someone has a trick to getting that out. I'm sure others have gone through it, but don't remember reading here about what they did to get the ring off.

Paul

77broncodriver · Aug 18, 2018

Yeah maybe I can fit a small cut off wheel in there to cut it or a chisel to break it. The ring covers the indents on the inner nut so I can’t unscrew it out.

Has anyone tried the stage 8 locking spindle nuts? I’m pretty sure I am installing them right but the pins always break. And I’ll take the other side back apart and put a new one in there.

I torque the inner nut to 50lbs while spinning it and then back it off till I can put the lock ring on, then torque the outer nut to 100lbs. I’ve taken it about maybe 4 times, and 3 of them I’ve had to order new ones because they come out with no pins anymore.

-Evan

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pcf_mark · Aug 18, 2018

I would rap on it with a punch. Try to orient the key back to the key way. I used dental picks to get mine out a few weeks ago. One cocked it but 2 got it moving,

DirtDonk · Aug 18, 2018

Then something is wrong with the parts. But you're not remembering it correctly either. Hopefully you're not just backing it off to line up with the pin, or you're too tight by a long shot.

You torque it down to 50lbs, then back off a full quarter turn. As in 90° on the inner nut.
THEN you line up the lock ring with the groove in the spindle and, if needed, turn the inner nut to line the pin up with a hole. But you can also flip the ring over and try again, because the holes in the ring are offset slightly from the tab.

Locking the outer one down to 100lbs should literally guarantee that nothing spins after your final torque. The only things I can think of that would cause it to happen are:
1. The pin is not actually lined up after all, and is getting crushed with the final torque.
2. The locking ring's tab is not large enough, or the groove in the spindle is not deep enough, to lock the two parts together.
3. The inner nut not being backed off that quarter turn is doing something with too much preload on the bearings and forcing some pressure on the nuts and ring.
4. The wrong, or poorly constructed parts not fitting properly.
5. Re-using bearings that are already toasted, and binding up somehow.

I can't really think of anything else that would allow, or cause the ring and nuts to try to spin. The tab on the ring is capable of locking everything in place for literally 100k miles if it was pushed to do so. I can't imagine the forces that are needed to literally spin it out of it's groove.

Good luck. Hope you can get it off without having to do too much damage to other parts. I rarely have good luck with Dremel type tools, but it seems like that's what it's going to take to get into that small work area.
Or perhaps better yet, and not requiring any specialty tools, drilling out the ring adjacent to a hole by using a drill to hog away some material, then finishing it off with a chisel just might do it.

Paul

77broncodriver · Aug 18, 2018

That’s a good idea to drill out the material Paul!

I might have not went back a full 90* last time I put it together so that could be affecting it. When I get the new nut kits I’ll make sure I do it this time around. After completed should it have a lot of drag when turning the disk or very little?

Evan

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DirtDonk · Aug 18, 2018

77broncodriver said:
...I might have not went back a full 90* last time I put it together so that could be affecting it.
When I get the new nut kits I’ll make sure I do it this time around.

When you back the inner nut off the 90 degrees, don't let the overall excessive play bother you. It tightens back up when yo do the final lock nut torque.
Make sure to trial fit the new lock ring, to make sure that it's tab fits well into the spindle groove and the ring does not have enough play in it to allow the tab to come out of said groove.
It's not a "tight" fit of course, but it should never be so loose that it can rock out of position.

Hopefully the bearings and races are in good shape still. Are you planning to re-pack them this go round? Or were you just in there for hub maintenance?
I'm just thinking that if the bearings were loose for a long enough time, you should at least be inspecting them and, if in good shape still, put some fresh grease in there.

77broncodriver said:
After completed should it have a lot of drag when turning the disk or very little?

Very little.
The bearings themselves should have virtually zero resistance/drag, other than what the seal applies to the spindle. But the brakes can certainly drag a little bit under the right circumstances.
If you spin the wheel right after doing the bearing adjustment, and have not applied the brakes recently, then you should have very little, to no drag at all.
Right after applying the brakes though, you can often feel some drag when working things by hand. You would not notice it when driving, and they are designed such that the pistons retract ever so slightly anyway, so as not to lose fuel efficiency, or build up heat and wear out the pads from too much brake drag.

So no, you should not feel much drag. If any...
If you remove the caliper so as to remove the brakes from the equation, you should be able to easily spin the rotor and it should keep spinning for at least a turn or so, if not more.

Paul

bronkenn · Aug 19, 2018

You may be able to get a spot weld cutter in there to cut the ring. The divots in the ring could be used as a pilot for the cutter. Just a thought. Ken

77broncodriver · Aug 19, 2018

bronkenn said:
You may be able to get a spot weld cutter in there to cut the ring. The divots in the ring could be used as a pilot for the cutter. Just a thought. Ken

I will have to look into that, either this way or with a normal drill bit definitely seems like the best way to go. Drill a hole on both sides then try to break the ring off.

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77broncodriver · Aug 19, 2018

DirtDonk said:
Hopefully the bearings and races are in good shape still. Are you planning to re-pack them this go round? Or were you just in there for hub maintenance?

I'm just thinking that if the bearings were loose for a long enough time, you should at least be inspecting them and, if in good shape still, put some fresh grease in there.

Paul

The bearings and races looked good to me but I’m not a pro at inspecting them. I took them out of the side I did and repacked them and then filled the bearing area in the hub with a good amount of grease.

And it sounds like I did put the nut on too tight. I have a decent amount of resistance because when I turned the full 90* it seemed way too loose so tightened it a back 45*. Now I know it’s suppose to be that loose and hopefully this time around everything will work the way it is suppose to!

-Evan

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Broncobowsher · Aug 19, 2018

Consider that lock ring is now junk. It is stretched, the tab has threads cut into it by the spindle.

Cave man it. Take a punch and drive it around until the tab drops back into the slot.
You might be able to make a tool with a couple of pins that engage the lock ring.

Basically you need to find a way to rotate the lock ring back into the slot. That is your best chance at saving the threads on the spindle.

77broncodriver · Aug 19, 2018

Yeah the lock ring is junk now. I tried a couple different drill bits with no luck, it must be a hardened metal. Then got a cold chisel and one hard hit broke it and it fell right out! Now hopefully the local autozone or maybe 4wheelparts has the spindle nut kits so I can get it back together.

-Evan

Attac · Aug 19, 2018

77broncodriver said:
Yeah the lock ring is junk now. I tried a couple different drill bits with no luck, it must be a hardened metal. Then got a cold chisel and one hard hit broke it and it fell right out! Now hopefully the local autozone or maybe 4wheelparts has the spindle nut kits so I can get it back together.

-Evan

Evan
How did your spindle threads look.
Thats right where the lock nut tightens down and it only has about 4 threads or so in it so make sure it didnt mess up too many threads.
Chuck

Broncobowsher · Aug 19, 2018

IF the inner nut came off good, the threads are probably still good.

The expensive way would be the Stage8 locking spindle nut. But I think the factory double nut with lock plate is just fine.

77broncodriver · Aug 19, 2018

Surprisingly the threads look pretty good and the nut goes on and off smoothly. When the ring spun it stayed on one thread if that makes sense. I’m just going to stick with the oem style and with all your guys advice on the proper installation it should work.

-Evan

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DirtDonk · Aug 20, 2018

Bearings look and feel good still too? No bluing, or pitting, or brinelling on the rollers, and they roll smooth in the races?

Paul

DirtDonk · Aug 20, 2018

Sorry, missed the earlier post where you inspected and re-packed them.

Sure dodged that bullet!

Paul

Nothing Special · Aug 21, 2018

I'm a little late to the party, but I had that happen on my Bronco when I took the front end apart this spring to install the front locker. I was able to "caveman it" (in Brocobowsher's words) and spin it back to the slot. It didn't seem to have hurt my spindle threads either.

In my case the corners on the lock ring seemed to be pretty rounded, so I don't think there was a great fit to start with. The replacement parts had much sharper corners, and seemed o be a closer fit to the spindle.

Boss Hugg · Aug 21, 2018

77broncodriver said:
Then got a cold chisel and one hard hit broke it and it fell right out!

If at first, it's not broke, break it harder. I'm from the government. I know what I'm doing.

Spindle lock ring stuck

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