...Do you have a link to an example of a tinned copper military connector?
I thought I bought mine from Waytek, but in looking at both their's and Del City's websites, don't see any mention of Military lugs at all.
But they're about. I tend to prefer non-lead products, so that's the way I went for my supply.
Lots of misinformation above...
I beg to differ. I may even heartily disagree!
In fact, I feel the same about at least some of what you put forth. Especially the recommendation for those crappy OE style clamps! The worst for heavy duty use in my (limited) experience.
1) Military clamps are very rigid and have different thermal expansion than the lead post. The result is a big temperature difference often results in a loose clamp. Over tighten and and you can visibly see the lead post flex in the battery body. Use a backup wrench is always required and the torque and force required is significant. Not good with the short wrnches we all have.
Like others, I've never heard that, or had that experience either. Perhaps it's because we don't task or stress our stuff to the max enough for it to have come up, but there are many of us that use that type of lug and have never experienced anything like what you describe that I'm aware of.
Perhaps there are experiences out there. I will certainly search since I'm assuming you have heard of, or experienced this for yourself. So I'm happy to learn more about this aspect.
But if that was going to be a problem, then why in the heck would they be called "military" terminals? Is it an advertising/marketing ploy? Or are they in fact actually used in military applications?
And if so, why would they spec a product that had such deficiencies as to make them not even suitable for mere civilian use? Doesn't seem logical.
Did the military specify them originally, then drop them like a hot potato when they turned out to be deficient and failure prone? When a battery connection comes loose on a military vehicle, people can die!
But hey, maybe there is a problem and that's why I did not find them on Waytek or Del City anymore!
2) Optima brand "only" has side posts that are not for high loads like starter. They are only for accessory loads due to the very small conductor between the fat post and the side post. Optima is the only battery I know of with such an issue. This is a proven fact by cutting apart an Optima.
That's also pretty skewed information from all that I've experienced or heard.
First of all,
no battery manufacturer recommends their side terminals for extended heavy use accessories. Of course that includes things like winches,
OR extended cranking of a starter motor, especially on a larger engine.
Otherwise they're perfectly fine for normal starter use, and in fact that's what they're for. Starting duties... Considered a momentary heavy load, and perfectly fine for side terminals.
And what many of us have used Optimas for, for many years.
Never heard of an Optima failing in this manner, but I'll check for internet stories for some info. I assume you'd heard that somewhere and would not just make it up, so I don't disbelieve you in that it's possible that Optima uses smaller links. But
ALL or at least almost all side terminal batteries use smaller conductors than they do on their top posts. A fact that's been mentioned in print for as long as there have been side terminal batteries.
Some Bronco members here using them for starting I'm pretty sure, and even many are still using them for winching (which is a no-no right from the get-go) which they've been told is not a good thing, but do it anyway. Maybe they're lucky and have not had to use their winches yet.
I personally would not use a side terminal for a starter on a Bronco with a manual transmission that was going to see off-road action. I like to use the starter too much to feel good about it.
But I'm going on 11 years now with a Red Top doing starting duties in other vehicles without a whimper.
Perhaps the problems were happening during the time that Optima was having reliability issues in general? Now
that I would understand.
Is it still an issue that you know of? Or was that an older problem you heard about?
3) The best clamp I have ever used is the late model OEM clamp. It comes with a bolt for the cables.
It also has its limitations (emphasis added obviously) - like a short bolt and an less than strong attachment to the post feature. Use a star washer for reduced clamping force and reduced clamping force and greater current conduction. Use a backup. For sure is will not come loose on the post and does not require heavy clamping force to stay put on the post.
I'm sorry to disagree once again. But I do, and big time!
Those have got to be the single worst battery clamp for any heavy duty or safe secure use ever designed anywhere. Ever!
Yes, they're clean (I really liked them the first time I saw one). And yes they (some of them) are very good at clamping the post of the battery. Well, at least the factory ones are. I've had good luck with the clamping force of factory ones. Until they corrode to dust and fail catastrophically.
But the aftermarket ones
SUCK BIG TIME! I've bought several sets from different manufacturers (presumably) and all had the wrong angle of the strapping that would not even clamp tightly around the battery. Especially the style with the flip lever on the side, but I'm not counting those in my tirade.
So much of a clamping issue that one of them actually would work it's way up the post until it popped off after less than a week of driving.
You would have thought that with the design, you could simply turn the bolt tighter and it would literally form itself around almost any but the most deformed battery post. But nope... Not in the cases of the ones I had.
And reliability? Have you seen older ones that use non-sealed batteries? They literally rust through so early in their life (5 years or so in some cases?) that they're not worth keeping.
And weak? You need two tools just to connect anything to them securely without twisting the tab into a knot. One wrench to loosen and tighten the nut, and a really big pair of pliers to hold the strap and stud so that turning the nut does not twist the stem in half! They make good pretzels, but that's about it.
Maybe I'm ham-handed (I'm not), but I've turned more than one of those into a pretzel trying to make a simple wire connection. Including the Waytek ones you linked to.
The only reason I have them in my supply is in case I need to replace one where the factory one broke, or melted off of the cable and the person wants to keep it stock looking. Otherwise I would throw them away at the first sign of deterioration and replace them with something more robust.
Such as a military style lug...
Again, the factory supplied ones seem to be the best of the bunch. I may just be unlucky, but I have not yet found an aftermarket version that was worth the few buck it costs.
So in my opinion, to say that last style is appropriate for a Bronco, that might actually see some off road adventure action, or extended periods of no maintenance, is just plain wrong. They truly and surely just suck.
In my experience at least....
4) Using a Marine or RV battery has advantages, but be sure it meet the specs for a starting battery.
Why? As long as a battery has double the CCA as the cubic inches of the engine (so at least 600 for our general discussion) it will make a perfectly adequate starting battery.
I especially like the extra reserve capacity most have for those extra accessories (like a winch). There are many available that do just that.
The marine batteries typically have higher reserve capacities because they're, for the most part, the same deep-cycle batteries you seem to be recommending against.
Nothing wrong with using a deep-cycle battery for starting duties, as long as it's got sufficient cranking amps. Which nowadays many do.
Or maybe that's actually what you were meaning by "meet the specs" for a starting battery? Just that it has sufficient cranking amps?
If so, I misunderstood and sorry about that.
Watch out for the correct battery group and check the dimensions before buying. They also come in oversize configurations and AGM which some of us like. (Group 31)
Well, what's wrong with using a different size than originally specified? Especially if it's larger and fits into the space available?
I bet at least half the Broncos out there are using a non-stock sized battery. Seems like a good thing to me. Larger is usually accompanied by more cranking amps and reserve capacity both.
I think the tone of your post was to add good information to make sure someone does not make a mistake with an important decision. But I think you also threw in some misleading information yourself in the form of saying that much of the previous info was wrong. Which I don't believe it was.
Obviously personal experiences play an important role in recommendations to others. We each have our own that might disagree with others, but still be legitimately put forth.
I just happen to disagree with some of what you said. Not that my recommendations are all perfect and the only correct ones(!) and I'm happy to learn new stuff an learn from my mistakes. So don't take this as simply disagreeing because you disagreed with me (or with others that I thought had good info) because I love to learn.
I just happen to think in this case most of the previous info was good and correct.
Paul