Improving ride quality on new bronco

Evening folks. I've had my '67 for about a month now and have been changing little things here and there. My two upcoming "big projects" are going to be a family cage/seat belts, then front disc brakes. I'm a novice and have been able to handle minor things thanks to this forum (3g alternator swap, electrical stutff, etc.), but I can't weld and don't trust my rookie mechanical abilities to mess with something as important as brakes, so the two upcoming projects will be done by a pro.

So while I'm doing the brakes, I figured that would be a good time to look into improving the overall ride quality and hopefully getting rid of a pretty bad shimmy that happens at 30 mph. Regarding the ride quality, I'll paste a link below with lots of pics of my Bronco so folks can see what suspension equipment it has (yeah I know, worldwide vintage...should have researched them first before buying, but she's mine now and I'm happy with the old girl...). The current set up looks pretty built up for wheeling, and this is just a weekend car for hitting the beach and cruising around in the city. I love the way it looks, but my wife thinks it's too high, so I'll probably drop it down an inch. Someone in another thread I posted suggested that getting rid of one of the dual front shocks would help, so any other suggestions to make her drive more comfortably would be much appreciated.

As for the shimmy, it seems to really only happen right around 30 mph. The truck feels like its shaking back and forth and if I take my hands off the wheel it moves back and forth too. I've read a few threads on here and it seems like this is a fairly common issue, but was curious if the current suspension could be causing or contributing to it. If not, anyone know what I should look at to try and address it?

Here's the link with pics: http://wwva.worldwidevintageautos.c...co-302-v8-lifted-soft-top-hood-scoop-must-see

Thanks a lot!

we'll need some pics of the front axle with all the steering linkage in view.


death wobble is usually caused by worn steering components or trac bar bushings. other things can cause it but those two top the list.

for ride quality buy a suspension system one of the major vendors. i would start with james duff and wild horses. you'll be shocked at the difference that will make.

Better pics of the front end for sure. The radius arm drop brackets look home made. It's hard to tell if the caster is correct. The shimmy could be caused by a lot of different things. Loose track bar, worn track bar bushings, worn tie rod ends, track bar and dragline mid alignment. Just to name a few. Get some good straight on shots of the front end and we can tell more


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Removing one set of the front shocks will not lower the bronco but it may soften the ride.

Your radius arm drop brackets look scary. They make your bronco drive better by giving you positive caster but you may want to replace them with stronger ones like the ones James Duff sells. It will require welding. Drop brackets are a cheap way to get better handling but it works.

You could lower the rear by removing the lift blocks or reducing the size of the block between the spring and the 9". To lower the front you will have to buy a shorter set of springs.

For the shake at speed, start it up and have someone turn the wheel just a bit from side to side while you look at all of the steering links, track bar ends and even the steering box for movement that should not be there. There should be no slop in the bushings or links.
Death wobble is usually caused by bad bushings on the track bar running from the frame to the D44.

Also you need to rotate the tie rod so the grease zerk on the drag link is pointed up at the bumper. About 45* or so

More like 60-65 degrees actually. Angle measured by a stock tie-rod setup by a member here, so that's what I've been using as a reference. Ends up pointing more towards the bottom of the radiator than the bumper, like I used to recommend.
But even running it to a 45 is a big improvement over pointing straight ahead!

Sounds from the description like it's more of a shimmy than a true "death wobble" maybe. But it does sound almost like it's the beginnings of it.
More details might tell the tale.

A mild to medium shimmy can be out of balance tires. Or tires that are just almost worn out or failing internally.
A real death wobble is almost always a tire. Maybe more than one.

The first thing I recommend is rotating the front tires to the back to see if the shimmy at least changes it's manners. If it goes away completely then you know that you have to deal with some tire issues. If it only changes the pattern, you might at least have to check the balance. Or you might have four new tires in your future.
If it's only the one or two tires (assuming it is a tire of course) you can simply leave the bad ones on the back and not worry about it.
Hopefully it ends up being that simple.

Absolutely do the test that JohnJohn mentioned. It's something that all EB owners should be familiar with. Make sure you do it with both tires firmly on the ground with the full weight of the Bronco on them. While the helper saws the wheel back and forth enough to make the wheels move slightly in each direction (usually a 1/4 turn of the steering wheel in each direction is sufficient) you should lay under the front and make sure that nothing is moving that is not supposed to. Even slightly.
If you're not sure what those things are that are not supposed to move, just check back when you're ready to do the test.

But definitely show us some pics of the steering and front suspension. The only pic in their gallery that I could see sure looked like the angles were way too steep. Maybe they installed the lift kit and didn't drop the trackbar and draglink. Most likely in fact, as it looks like a standard Rancho 3" lift.
Super stiff front coils, super stiff rear stock leaves that are worn out (almost) and that get even stiffer when you hit big bumps because they contact the bottom overload leaves at that point.

How big of a body lift is there?
What size tires? The rear flares are the older Bushwackers (it looks like anyway) so if you go down too much farther your tires might contact the leading edge of the rear flares unless you open it up farther with the new design flares.

That's it for now until we can see some pics of underneath.

Good luck. Should be easy to soften it up some, with the new springs, perhaps new shocks, and perhaps some tire fixes. If the tires are old and tired, they're not helping the ride quality any either.
And speaking of that... What air pressure is in them currently? Probably too much, so well worth a double check.

Paul

on a side note, how was your experience dealing with worldwide? I am skeptical of their prices (they seem way lower than everyone else) and it seems most of their vehicles are consignments and they have no idea whats been done to them. They pretty much just describe whatever the owner told them and you have to take their word for the work done.

DirtDonk said:

But definitely show us some pics of the steering and front suspension. The only pic in their gallery that I could see sure looked like the angles were way too steep.

Paul

Click to expand...

What Paul said. I think I see a drop pitman arm and no drop trac bar bracket.

I have a unused weld on dropped track bar bracket if you need one.

Imwas guessing at the degrees. Lol. But in his pic it is just about straight forward so i figured it would help some. Out of curiosity Paul, how should the grease zerk on a 76-77 inverted y point. Im still running that and everything is tight but i get a nasty wobble above 60 or 65 no matter what tire i out on the passenger front. That is where it always comes from. Below that it rides and handles like a caddy.

Im sorry that was axels up pic of his steering. But interestingly enough it looks as though his is not adjustable to rotate the zerk pointing up. It looks as though the drag link is attached to the tie rod end instead of the tie rod. I dont know for sure. What yall think?

1 slow 97 said:

on a side note, how was your experience dealing with worldwide? I am skeptical of their prices (they seem way lower than everyone else) and it seems most of their vehicles are consignments and they have no idea whats been done to them. They pretty much just describe whatever the owner told them and you have to take their word for the work done.

Click to expand...

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271728

Paul

Crush said:

Imwas guessing at the degrees. Lol.

Click to expand...

Hah! Yeah, we all did until just last year. I used 45 degrees countless times until someone who was still sporting a stock setup decided it was time to put the old angle finder on things and see what was up during one of our many discussions about setting up the fully adjustable tie-rods.
He got 61° with an analog angle finder if I remember.

Crush said:

But in his pic it is just about straight forward so i figured it would help some.

Click to expand...

Absolutely! Everybody with a fully adjustable setup using the more traditional draglink location (kits like this: http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Tie_Rod_Drag_Link_3way_Adjustable_6675yr/Custom_tie_rods) will benefit from that angle change. But if you mean in AxlesUp's pic above that is not something you can adjust out of the "GM 1-ton" setup. It is what it is and the only thing currently you can do to minimize the straight ahead effect (excessive rotational movement of the tie-rod) is to get "The Cure" from Ruff-Stuff.
In DJPoop's pics I can't tell exactly what it is, but it looks more stock-ish from what I can see. And that would be consistent with the seller.

Crush said:

Out of curiosity Paul, how should the grease zerk on a 76-77 inverted y point?

Click to expand...

It's non-adjustable too. It's gonna point where it's gonna point. Which is roughly straight back like this: http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/tie_rod_drag_link_76kit/76-77_tie_rods
If your long rod is adjustable, then it's not stock and should be oriented like you see in the pic.
If you're running that setup with the 3" Rancho lift still, that's at least a part of your problem too. Did you install a dropped pitman arm and trackbar bracket? And 36" tires? Too big for that setup and the tires are literally pushing your tie-rod around like a high-school bully.
Or is this a more stock EB? I see you have both a '76 and '77? What's the setup on the one you're asking about?

Crush said:

Im still running that and everything is tight but i get a nasty wobble above 60 or 65 no matter what tire i out on the passenger front. That is where it always comes from. Below that it rides and handles like a caddy.

Click to expand...

How do you know it's the passenger side? Have you tried swapping tires left to right just to see if it acts differently?
The Inverted-Y setup was a very good solution to some issues with a "stock" Bronco. Even with milder lifts and more moderate size tires it's still a good setup. But it's spindly in size and it's design is guaranteed to let the tires act against it too, so larger tires, especially on wider wheels with more negative offset can really flex the system beyond it's correct nature. Leading to all sorts of minor to major woes.

What's the full setup on the Bronco with the wobble?

Paul

Crush said:

But interestingly enough it looks as though his is not adjustable to rotate the zerk pointing up. It looks as though the drag link is attached to the tie rod end instead of the tie rod. I dont know for sure. What yall think?

Click to expand...

I think we touched on this a bit in the last post, but I wanted to bring it up in detail again just because.
You're correct that the draglink is attached to the rod-end in that system. And it's not adjustable to correct the angle.
It's a custom setup based on using steering components from straight-axle GM trucks from the 60's through the 80's with custom tubes. Known as the "1-ton" setup because even though the parts are found on GM Blazers and 1/2 ton trucks, they're also used up to the 1-ton trucks.

The tapered hole for the draglink in the passenger side rod end was originally intended (in it's GM application) for the steering stabilizer shock mount. And it's actually a slightly weak link in that setup.
I don't remember ever seeing one actually break, but they tend to bend right there by the hole in heavy use. The rod end is just necked down too much. Someone needs to come out with one that is not only beefier, but angled more correct for Bronco steering.
But hey, with lifetime warranties and all that stuff, most people don't care if they bend one up. They just get another one from the Zone or wherever.

And the setup is definitely beefy and has some advantages with that longer draglink. But the geometry is not perfect and creates it's own issues to either be aware of or try to tune out if possible.
Lots of people use that setup though and are pretty happy with the results. Inexpensive if you can make your own tubing, and not even that bad when you buy one of the kits and weld-yer-own.
So they're strong, but I just don't like the geometry of the draglink that much.

Paul

Ok Paul. Yes. The lifted one. the 76 isnt even close to being on the road. Lol. Funny enough it is the one i have had the longest!!

Ok the setup is 3.5" lift. No drop on track bar or pittman arm. Track bar is adjustable. Angles are good though and everything is tight. All bushings have been replaced Tires are 15x36x15 original fun country's that were new when i got them. They actually measure 34.75" in height. They are on 15x8" with 3.75" backspace vintage dan gurney victory mags and they are balanced with beads because the mags dont have a lip and sticky weights hit the calipers.
So. I know it is the passenger front because i have had every tire in that position and they all do it the same. At about 61 or 62 it starts to wobble or bounce and just gets more violent the faster you go. If it was the tire you could push through the imbalance amd smooth out at a faster speed. I have not been able to do this. I have also checked the ball joints, bearings, and just about everything i can think of. Again it rides smooth and straight up to that 61 or 62 point. Only problem i have up to there is that it will grab road grooves from big trucks but that is a symptom of the bias tires. Hope you have some insight

Here is a pic for ya paul

Yowza! Pics speak volumes...
Sorry for the sidetrack DJPoop, but me & Crush are on a side mission here.

Crush said:

The 76 isnt even close to being on the road. Lol. Funny enough it is the one i have had the longest!!

Click to expand...

I hear that! My new-to-me '68 is a daily driver almost, while my '71 of 41 years last month has been sitting idle for more years than I care to admit in public.

Crush said:

Ok the setup is 3.5" lift. No drop on track bar or pitman arm.

Click to expand...

Ok, so no matter what else is going on, this is always going to be part of your problem(s). No matter an early Inverted-T or a later Inverted-Y like yours can live a happy life without being dropped after a 3.5" lift. And bigger tires. Especially the Y!

Crush said:

Track bar is adjustable.

Click to expand...

This is a good thing. It does not help your angle, but at least it allows you to center the axle. However, this is usually the least of the problems associated with a lifted EB.
But it's a good start...

Crush said:

Angles are good though...

Click to expand...

Sorry. I beg to differ. They are not good at all.
Ok, so they're still parallel-ish in the factory sense, since they are still in the factory mounts. But they are WAY steeper than Ford intended. And steeper is as much of an enemy of a good handling EB as parallel is.
And the angle just makes the design weaker too, when trying to turn those wide tires.

Crush said:

All bushings have been replaced Tires are 15x36x15 original fun country's that were new when i got them.

Click to expand...

How long ago was that now?
A lot of what you're dealing with is going to come down to the tires. You have to fix the angle of the dangle, but wide tires like that can really exert some leverage on the linkage. The narrower wheels help in one respect, but being such a wide discrepancy between the wheel width and tire width, you can expect other things to crop up now and then. A 15" wide tire on an 8" wide wheel is just way out of the norm. Not that you can't do it, as you've shown, having had them for years. But it's likely a part of your whole wobble/shimmy issue to begin with.
The tire's age alone is going to make them suspect. The width discrepancy is another possible cause (at least after this much time). The tire design was known for acting up to begin with. If yours were good all these years, then count yourself lucky. With a '77 count yourself double-lucky! That wide of a tire and a lifted Inverted-Y setup are not usually friends. Maybe it's just time to change them out.

Crush said:

They are on 15x8" with 3.75" backspace vintage dan gurney victory mags and they are balanced with beads because the mags dont have a lip and sticky weights hit the calipers.

Click to expand...

That's usually the perfect wheel size and backspace for a typical Bronco. Very road and off-road friendly. But age, tire design, wheel balance issue, and all the other "aboves" are probably contributing to your wobble. Add the more flexible Y setup and you are just going to feel it more.

Crush said:

So. I know it is the passenger front because i have had every tire in that position and they all do it the same.

Click to expand...

So not the passenger front tire, but the front corner. This could again be the Y setup, as that one short rod will force the longer rod to flex as the tire wobbles. It's just felt more on the short side.

Crush said:

At about 61 or 62 it starts to wobble or bounce and just gets more violent the faster you go. If it was the tire you could push through the imbalance amd smooth out at a faster speed.

Click to expand...

Nope. Not always.
Yes, if it was just a simple imbalance issue you can usually drive through it. But yours is not simple in any way at this point. It's virtually the starting point of a true Death Wobble, but not quite reaching that dynamic point where it literally shakes the vehicle apart. This is probably one area where the Y linkage is actually helping, since it isolates the left and right tires more with flex and not having a single, rigid link between the two sides.
A bad tire (or four) from an internal layer separation, or a tread wear issue, can usually NOT be driven out of. You have to slow to a certain speed (usually about the same every time) for the shake to stop.
Also the balance beads change the dynamics of things as they are moving inside according to the immediate conditions.

Crush said:

I have also checked the ball joints, bearings, and just about everything i can think of. Again it rides smooth and straight up to that 61 or 62 point. Only problem i have up to there is that it will grab road grooves from big trucks but that is a symptom of the bias tires. Hope you have some insight

Click to expand...

Yeah, all of those things can give you a tiny bit of shimmy/shake, but usually not. A little looseness is what you feel when the tires are still good. But once a tire, or tires starts to act up, even the tightest ball-joints and bearings and rod ends can't stop it.

I'd say you have two issues and you can deal with them separately if you want. I'd recommend it in fact.
1. If you're going to keep the Inverted-Y steering, you MUST add a dropped pitman arm and trackbar bracket. Period.
1a. But I recommend if you're going to keep that size of tire on your rig, that you change to the earlier Inverted-T style. The aftermarket ones are just so much beefier that it can handle things better. If you do this, you don't do the trackbar drop, you only do the pitman arm for a 78/79 full size.
2. Change the tires. They're too old and are likely the root of your whole problem. I used to love those tires, but they did have their issues. I worked for Cepek and there was a love/hate relationship. Some sizes were worse than others, but they had a great street ride and handled well too when done right. I do think yours are too wide for the wheels however (even though they look great!) so there are multiple things to consider.

But since the steering is WAY less expensive to dial in first, that's what I would do first. Just to see how it effects the issue.
It's going to improve your handling no matter what. But whether it can get rid of your shimmy/wobble is going to be entirely up to the tires. Hopefully they still have some life left in them, but if they're pushing 20 years old, they're over due.
Or if I'm misreading you and they are newer versions, then definitely just do the steering and see what you end up with.

Good luck.
And I'm super interested in how this all turns out Crush. You've been rocking that setup for a long time, so I'm curious to hear what happens if you make any of those other changes. Frankly I'm surprised you didn't make the changes before now, since most feedback from Inverted-Y owners with lifts and larger tires is uniformly unhappy and negative. Probably about 85% seem to feel the need for a change. But you've just pulled that percentage down a couple of notches for sure! Be interesting to see a thread dedicated just to the pros, cons, ins, outs and shouldawouldacouldas of the Y setups on modified Broncos.
Let's do it!

Now back to our originally scheduled programming DJ!

Paul

I know we say it from time to time but.....


Paul is the F'n Man.

Thank you Bud. You take me to school on the daily here at CB.

Thanks paul. That helps alot. I have only had the tires mounted for about a year and a half. They were new up to thAt point(i have had them in climate comtrol storage for 5 years and the guy i got them from had done the same since about 03. They have a 93 date code on them). No dry rot or any visisble problems inside and out. Bushings are all a year and a half old and the c'snare 7*. Im glad you think i have been rocking this setup for a while but the whole bronco has only been on the road for a year and a half In his configuration. I was shooting for the built in the 80's look and i guess i succeeded. Lift was sourced from another bronco and it was anout 6 months old when i got that bronco(in 98)Everything still has paper labels on them. Lol. I have been gathering vintage parts and making things that appear vintage for a few years to achieve the look. The top and boot are original kayline models in blue. Interior was done in about 83 and is custom vinyl diamond tuck. It had red shag carpet but intook it out and put a parchment sport rubber mat in

I have suspected it was prolly a tire issue since i got it running but i love the tires so much im gonna put up with it till they wear out or blow out. Lol. I just have never had it only be on the passenger front before. No matter what tire i put there the wobble is always on that corner. Deano on here is a buddy if mine and has a straight tie rod setup i might be able to test it out and see. I think between us we might have drop brackets and drop pittman arms to use so we will figure it out and report back. I just cant stop driving it long enought to play with figuring this out. Lol

Sorry there also DJPoop. Paul PM me if you wanna chat some more

Will do. But it's too much fun to throw all this stuff out there in the public eye anyway. So let's keep DJ entertained until he spits out the popcorn and takes his 3D glasses home.
And thanks a ton bronconut. Always a pleasure.

Anyway, it's good to have friends to trade parts around with. But swapping parts temporarily may not work out easily in this case, unless his are specifically for the '76 and '77 year models.
The tapered holes and rod end studs are pretty mismatched between them. The Y-link rod ends are quite a bit smaller, so the T-link ends may not fit far enough into them to get the nut on with a cotter pin. However, if you can get it threaded on far enough, or can do the same with a lock nut rather than a cotter pin and castle nut, that should do the trick.
Same for the pitman arm end as well, but with a swapped-in arm from an earlier model, that upper end of the T-link should fit perfect.

And if the other trackbar bracket is also of earlier style, it won't work on your '77 frame. They're so totally different in shape and size, that the two models of drop brackets are incompatible with the wrong year frame.
But if he's got '76/'77 stuff, you're in business.

Ok, so the tires are an unknown at this point. Yes, by normal standards a tire that is 24 years old is junk. But their life of leisure and comfort (and lack of use) may mean that they're perfect.
In that case, great. But you still have to deal with the fact that you might have a set of the wobbly goblins I spoke of. Could be, in which case you're just living with it. Glad you've got a good attitude about that!

Keep us up to date with your progress. Like my own stuff, I hope your progress speeds up a bit!;D

Paul