Brake fluid PROOF coating for m/c, brake calipers...

benT · Jan 8, 2018

DirtDonk said:
When done properly I bet standard powder coat is fine at least for some time. Not sure why brake-cleaner would be an issue either frankly. It evaporates so quickly I wouldn't expect it to harm good powder coat.
There are many different chemistries for powder as well. You have epoxies, polyurethanes, etc. for powder paint just like you have for liquid paint. They even have "graffiti" proof powders that are so robust that you can use some pretty nasty paint cleaners to wipe them clean and not hurt the underlying coating.

Don't know all the particulars. Someone that does that for a living should know what's best to work with in the powder world.

Paul

If going the Powdercoat route, you want it done in an Epoxy formula powder. The epoxy powders are chemical, fuel, and brake fluid resistant unlike a typical polyester powder. Epoxies are limited in colors, but most professional powdercoating shops will have epoxy powders in basic colors like black, grey, white, etc.

Yes, I do this for a living.

ntsqd · Jan 8, 2018

No word yet from Cerakote. I'll give them another day or two and try again.

1 mil is .001 inch. I'd think 4 oz. would cover quite a bit at that thickness, even with the over-spray loss. Use an air brush is my thought to make it go further.

68ford · Jan 8, 2018

nvrstuk said:
M/C is '85 Chev 1 ton hydroboost, 1.338 ID bore.

In my build thread it details issues with changing over from the Astrovan steptype mc... etc

I'd go back to a plastic bodied mc in a heartbeat if I could find one that fit...physically, bore, etc...

I'm curious to why you have to have such a large bore master? I imagine the pedal travel is very minimal and a 1.250 would be fine? I used to drive a 85 Chevy dually with likely the same master. Ran out of gas one time and without assist I all but could not stop that truck without ripping off the steering wheel and it was empty.

ntsqd · Jan 8, 2018

His build thread will answer those questions.

68ford · Jan 8, 2018

ntsqd said:
His build thread will answer those questions.

Can you narrow it down for me from 16 pages?

nvrstuk · Jan 9, 2018

Soon to be about 4 more pages!!!

Large calipers front and rear, disc brackets were bought with the understanding I wouldn't be required to use such large caliper on the brackets...next it will be different...

Physical dimensions of the hood restriction, strut mounting hoop, etc really limits choices.

Toss in many newer MC's are stepped...

Not many choices when you need so much fluid to move enough fluid so you can bleed the brakes.

Last 4 pgs or so I think on my build...post #184 is where the the real brake design issues come in...

68ford · Jan 9, 2018

Maybe I'm used to more pedal travel than you. My race truck has very large 6 piston calipers all around and a side by side dual master set up. Front master is 1in and rear is 1.125 and I use a much longer pedal than eb, pedal travel is not that great. I understand your hood issue my eb has a cowl hood because of the 2 masters hitting the stock hood. It has 6 piston front and 4 piston rear calipers and its masters are 3/4 front and 7/8 rear and the pedal travel is not bad either though more than most eb's. I would just be worried with a basically 1.375 bore, if you lost assist, could you safely stop?

ntsqd · Jan 9, 2018

You only get to use the area of one side of a fixed caliper to compare. This is the industry standard, not something I made up. If you try to use both sides then for a true & fair comparison the sliding caliper piston area has to be doubled.

If you add up the total piston area of those bilwood calipers I doubt they're as big as the D60 OEM front caliper piston area. Then his rear calipers are the D52 GM calipers, so 2-15/16" piston OD.

68ford · Jan 9, 2018

The will woods are not as big if you add up all the same in. But look at the size of my masters, 3/1 and 7/8.

On the race truck the 6 piston calipers have 1.75 pistons so the sq in is actually only slight bigger. But I'm running 1in and 1.125 masters. A lot less volume than 2 1.33masters.

Not trying to argue, just thought maybe there is a 1.250 that may work or even a 1.125 from wilwood or something along and not cast iron.

nvrstuk · Jan 9, 2018

JD7's are 3 5/32"..

I can bump down to the JD 6 which are the 2 15/16" ...They both are huge...I had ONE day, only 1 day after figuring the surface area on 4 pistons.... to get 1) a larger mc to move enough fluid for those beasts 2) cut off the welded on caliper brackets so I could adapt smaller calipers on to different brackets and adapt a different mc on, 3) MISS my 3rd wheeling trip of the year...if you read the last month of my build list you'll better u understand what I really mean by this...

So the monster factory mc for Chevy brakes with factory Chevy calipers with the Chevy factory matched hydroboost all work on my Bronco exactly the same as the stock application except I run a manual rear bias valve to compensate for the lack of weight...

My simple goal at this point is to get rid of the rust and ever so slight weep...redesigning the syatem would be the the ticket....but the pedal feel is great, pedal travel/stroke is great, and they work great.

I've obviously had to crank down the bias valve from the previous setting with the Tbird and Exploder calipers with the Astrovan mc

nvrstuk · Jan 9, 2018

I didn't discuss pedal travel...I had to weld/extend the rod again from the pedal to the HB so i could raise the pedal off the floor more-couldnt get e nougj adj with my other modified rod... I have plenty of pedal travel. If i could easily fix the mc and caliper issue then I'd leave it all alone.

If I can't, then I swap in JD6 with a different plastic snap on no-leak lid mc..

68ford · Jan 9, 2018

How does or stop without assist? I just remember that 85 3500 dually being almost unstoppable empty when the engine does and I used up the 2 extra applications or whatever your supposed to have stored up.

ntsqd · Jan 10, 2018

The hydraulics are scaleable. A bigger bore caliper piston needs a bigger bore M/C. It is the ratio of the bores that is important, NOT the actual size of any one part.

On that 3500 you were fighting both the booster not having boost and the lower leverage ratio of a boosted system. System configs for a booster are radically different in subtle ways vs. a non-boosted system. Can not compare them apples to apples.

(Yes, I'm the same 'ntsqd' who has posted about brakes on RDC.)

nvrstuk · Jan 10, 2018

I haven't tried stopping w/o boost yet...thing never quits running... I'll try it

68ford · Jan 10, 2018

You will get a few assisted pumps once engine is off, then if it's like my old dually, get both feet ready hahahaha

Yeller · Jan 10, 2018

68ford said:
You will get a few assisted pumps once engine is off, then if it's like my old dually, get both feet ready hahahaha

that's a pretty standard with every brake booster on everything ever built, most are just 1 hit.

68ford · Jan 10, 2018

Yeller said:
that's a pretty standard with every brake booster on everything ever built, most are just 1 hit.

I understand that, my concern is that once the assist is no longer there, how hard will it be to stop. My truck with basically the same entire brake system, other than the pedal motion ratio, was Al but impossible to stop when the engine died empty on flat ground.

ntsqd · Jan 11, 2018

A large part of that hard pedal with no engine vacuum is actually the booster itself. Take the check valve out and it gets easier. Not as easy as no booster at all, but easier.

BUT, I keep saying this. The size of the master cylinder is not an issue. It is a question of the ratio of the m/c bore area to the caliper piston area. If that ratio is the same then a m/c with a 5" bore will be the same effort to push as will a m/c with a 0.5" bore.

With a dead engine on a vacuum boosted system you can't ever take your foot completely off the pedal. Can modulate the brakes, but once you step on the pedal you're committed to stopping pretty soon. Take your foot off and it's done, you'll have no boost at all.

AND still no reply from Cerakote.

68ford · Jan 11, 2018

My dually had hydroboost, not a vacuum booster. maybe it was the booster. With no assist making it so hard. The truck was almost unstoppable.

nvrstuk · Jan 11, 2018

That's what we want right..an "unstoppable" truck??!!! lol

Brake fluid PROOF coating for m/c, brake calipers...

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