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Steering and more from Ruffstuff!

OP
OP
Gravel Maker

Gravel Maker

Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
Messages
2,351
Loc.
Sacramento
Cvcoda-

Thanks for the question!

There are a few options that will give you great on-road handling and more controlled wander. But to know which one is best for you, you need to examine your current setup, see how it is laid out and figure out how to improve the geometry as well as make all the pieces stronger.

So the First thing to look at is whether your Tie-Rod (Knuckle-Knuckle) and Draglink (Steering Box/Pitman arm-Passenger side knuckle) are connected to one another. If so, then you have some version of a Y-link, or T-Link.

However if both the Tie-Rod and Draglink connect to the Passenger side knuckle in separate locations then you are looking at what is called Cross-Over steering.

The next question in a row... I believe the stock axle in the 76 Bronco is a Dana 44 with the Dual V-Shaped Radius Arm Bushings?... If so, take a look at the top of your knuckles. Some Dana 44s are called "Flat Top" meaning they have an arm that bolts onto the top of the knuckle with 3 or 4 studs. Other styles the Tie-rod and/or Drag link connection is cast into the knuckle itself.

Here is a pic I found on Google of a Flat top (Left) and a non-Flat top (right)
flattop_vs_nonflattop.jpg


This will tell us if you have the option of using high steer arms or not, which opens up some more options if you are.

Let me know what you have going on under there to begin with and I will make the best suggestion I can!

(feel free to PM me if that is easier for you)

Thanks!
 

Cvcoda

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
318
Loc.
Omaha, NE
Ok, so the drag link and tie-rod are connected and the knuckles are non-flat top.

I don't know much about the ideal geometry but if not mistaken I want the trac bar and drag link to basically be parallel to each other? The way my setup is right now, if I could go over the knuckle with the tie-rod, I'd probably be parallel?

72c159c14330d7eb7de2d76e157e851b.jpg



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Cvcoda

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
318
Loc.
Omaha, NE
Cvcoda-

Thanks for the question!

There are a few options that will give you great on-road handling and more controlled wander. But to know which one is best for you, you need to examine your current setup, see how it is laid out and figure out how to improve the geometry as well as make all the pieces stronger.

So the First thing to look at is whether your Tie-Rod (Knuckle-Knuckle) and Draglink (Steering Box/Pitman arm-Passenger side knuckle) are connected to one another. If so, then you have some version of a Y-link, or T-Link.

However if both the Tie-Rod and Draglink connect to the Passenger side knuckle in separate locations then you are looking at what is called Cross-Over steering.

The next question in a row... I believe the stock axle in the 76 Bronco is a Dana 44 with the Dual V-Shaped Radius Arm Bushings?... If so, take a look at the top of your knuckles. Some Dana 44s are called "Flat Top" meaning they have an arm that bolts onto the top of the knuckle with 3 or 4 studs. Other styles the Tie-rod and/or Drag link connection is cast into the knuckle itself.

Here is a pic I found on Google of a Flat top (Left) and a non-Flat top (right)
flattop_vs_nonflattop.jpg


This will tell us if you have the option of using high steer arms or not, which opens up some more options if you are.

Let me know what you have going on under there to begin with and I will make the best suggestion I can!

(feel free to PM me if that is easier for you)

Thanks!



Not sure if you can see in the pic above that there's some kind of trac bar drop bracket. I assume it's not stock.




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DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,346
Hi Cvcoda. Hope GravelMaker doesn't mind us discussing some details of your steering setup here in his thread, but if we need to go further we can go elsewhere.
In the meantime, and first of all, yours is definitely NOT stock original. Not only is it no longer the factory "Inverted-Y" setup, but it's also been converted to an aftermarket "fully adjustable Inverted-T" style like this: http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Tie_Rod_Drag_Link_3way_Adjustable_7677yr and not one of the type that RuffStuff sells. So you might not be able to benefit from their "The Cure" setup.

Yours is an excellent upgrade over stock for a lifted and/or larger tire equipped '76, but some issues you might be experiencing are a result of improper matching of parts, and a slightly misadjusted tie-rod.

Normally you would use a dropped pitman arm (which you do have) in conjunction with a dropped trackbar bracket (which you also have) but when you convert a '76 to this style steering you can't use the drop bracket any longer. The '76 and '77 models came with a very large upper bracket from the factory, so when you convert to the earlier style "T" setup, you no longer need the trackbar drop.
But with your taller lift (anything above 3.5") we may still need to tweak things. More on that later.

The slight misadjustent on the tie-rod is simple to correct, and will also serve to bring things into slightly better alignment.
Loosen all three adjusting sleeves, then grab the tie-rod's centerlink (the main cross bar) and rotate it "upward and back" so that the grease fitting on the lower draglink end faces more up into the radiator than it does now. The correct angle is actually about 63°, but if you don't have any way to verify that, simply move it so that it's much higher up than it is now and pointed more to the radiator and core support.
As you do this you'll see that the lower end also rises up and brings things closer to parallel.

You actually have a dropped pitman arm for a full-size Bronco/F150, but normally that's the correct one for your setup, minus the trackbar drop. I think if you remove the drop and rotate the tie-rod, you'll be almost perfect in most ways.
The problem now is that you're at 4" or more is it? Can you measure between the top of the axle and the bottom of the frame to confirm? If you're not above 4" you should be good to go with the tweaks I've outlined above.
If you're higher though, this might not be enough. If your bracket is fully welded, you might do some pre-measuring and figuring before cutting it off then. Taller lifts like more drop so you might have to use the drop bracket AND do the tie-rod over flip you were thinking of.
The ONLY way to know for sure though is to go through a system of checks yourself. We can't know the final result from here, because every setup is a little different and likes slightly different ways to fix it.

If you're at 3.5" or less however, the things I've outlined should get you driving pretty straight and true.

If you'd like more details or info, PM me or start a thread for this discussion over in the Tech section and we can discuss it ad nauseum and have more fun with it.

Good luck

Paul
 
OP
OP
Gravel Maker

Gravel Maker

Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
Messages
2,351
Loc.
Sacramento
DirtDonk-

Thanks for chiming in! sounds like you know a little more about those years specifically in this department.

One thing I wanted to mention was you had suggested rotating the lower Drag link end (where it connects to the tie-rod center section) up so the grease fitting was point up more...

Unless I am misunderstanding something else, that would be incorrect. You want the grease fitting point close to horizontal or straight forward, because then as the axle travels up and down the ball is rotating more, and not actually articulating as much. If the Grease fitting was pointed straight up, the joint would max out before the axle dropped out fully, making it a limiter on suspension until it eventually wears the joint out.

Cvcoda-

Just to answer a couple of your other questions about the drag link; The two golden rules with track bar/Drag link geometry are:

1-They should be as close as humanly possible to the exact same length. Measured from center-lines of the ball joints.

2-(as you already know)They should be the same angle or parallel, again measured from ball joint-ball joint. Any bends to clear components are negligible, its just imaginary lines between that matter.

2'- The more level at ride height, the better, but that is not nearly as critical as the others.

Best way I found to measure is to take a tape measure from the floor up to the center of each ball joint, do the subtraction (frame side height - Axle side height) and compare. If going over the top of the knuckle makes them closer to the same, I say do it.

Depending on what you find out measuring them, if you need the drag link to be longer, our style of y-link kit might work for you. Ours is the same concept of what you have, except the passenger side tie-rod end is extra long and has the hole for the bottom end of the drag link built into it. But as DirtDonk said, I bet with a few minor adjustments you can get that thing tracking down the road pretty well.


 

Cvcoda

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
318
Loc.
Omaha, NE
DirtDonk-

Thanks for chiming in! sounds like you know a little more about those years specifically in this department.

One thing I wanted to mention was you had suggested rotating the lower Drag link end (where it connects to the tie-rod center section) up so the grease fitting was point up more...

Unless I am misunderstanding something else, that would be incorrect. You want the grease fitting point close to horizontal or straight forward, because then as the axle travels up and down the ball is rotating more, and not actually articulating as much. If the Grease fitting was pointed straight up, the joint would max out before the axle dropped out fully, making it a limiter on suspension until it eventually wears the joint out.

Cvcoda-

Just to answer a couple of your other questions about the drag link; The two golden rules with track bar/Drag link geometry are:

1-They should be as close as humanly possible to the exact same length. Measured from center-lines of the ball joints.

2-(as you already know)They should be the same angle or parallel, again measured from ball joint-ball joint. Any bends to clear components are negligible, its just imaginary lines between that matter.

2'- The more level at ride height, the better, but that is not nearly as critical as the others.

Best way I found to measure is to take a tape measure from the floor up to the center of each ball joint, do the subtraction (frame side height - Axle side height) and compare. If going over the top of the knuckle makes them closer to the same, I say do it.

Depending on what you find out measuring them, if you need the drag link to be longer, our style of y-link kit might work for you. Ours is the same concept of what you have, except the passenger side tie-rod end is extra long and has the hole for the bottom end of the drag link built into it. But as DirtDonk said, I bet with a few minor adjustments you can get that thing tracking down the road pretty well.





Appreciate it Gravel Maker. I'll have to get the measurements later this week when I get back home. I'll let you know what I find.


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DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,346
You might be right about the angles under some circumstances GravelMaker, but not in the case of Ford linkage. You actually do want it to point upward at that angle I described. The angle is derived from Ford's own design for these trucks. Look at an original and that's all I'm describing.

Your reasoning about the travel limits is sound, but the primary reason for the angle is to reduce "tie rod roll" during transitions side to side.
If you watch any setup that has the rod end on the front face of the tie rod, basically horizontal like you said, it's actually trying to pull the tie rod up and over when you turn left, and push it down and under when you turn right. This is not good for the longevity of the rod ends and worst of all it really adds to a very vague steering feel. Rotating it up more to the top is also a way to get the trackbar and draglink more parallel to each other, because it raises the lower end of the draglink up to better match the trackbar's non-movable lower mount.

This rotational movement is actually what The Cure is all about reducing. In the case of your GM-based linkage, when it's new the rod ends are so tight that rotation is not a big problem. There's also nothing you can do about it since the tapered hole in the passenger side rod end is horizontal and that's the only way it's available.
But the fully adjustable replacements where the tapered hole is in the tie rod itself, can be rotated to just about any position. So matching the original Ford design seems to work best.

Paul
 
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