Vin / Title registration with Frame not matching?!

guidoverduci · Feb 23, 2018

Hello

I've got a buddy (seriously, lol), that has a non-op, non-running project (1976). He's had it for a year or so and he's trying to get it up and running. He's never registered it in California, where he lives. Here's the problem... He bought it off of a guy (also CA resident) who bought it from an out of state dealer. The out of state dealer (can't remember state), signed the title to the California buyer. That buyer realized he couldn't register it in CA due to smog issues and was way over his head to get it smog approved.

My buddy got a screaming deal, and just decided to tear it apart and rebuild to his liking. So, it's never been registered in California, and his project definitely won't pass smog when he gets it running. He has the title from out of state where the dealer signed it to the guy he bought it from, along with a bill of sale from the CA guy. What are his options? He's got a clean CA title and glovebox to match from a scrapped frame, but I told him that might not be the best road to go down, because I ran into a not so fun issue a couple years ago when frame and vin title don't match.

So to recap, he's got a project he's almost ready to sell. He's got the correct title that matches frame, but it was never registered in California. The title he has is out of state. It is also from a dealer who signed it to another buyer who couldn't register it in CA, but he has a bill of sale. What options does he have?

NC-Fordguy · Feb 23, 2018

Sounds like perhaps a Bonded Title scenario. Not sure how it works in CA but it's a PITA in NC

suckerpunched · Feb 24, 2018

so the title that matches the frame is for a 76 right? it will have to pass smog in california. 75 and older is exempt.
It might be easier and better in the long run to do an EFI conversion and take it to the smog referee to sign off. there is no easy way out of the california smog laws.

904Bronco · Feb 24, 2018

suckerpunched said:
so the title that matches the frame is for a 76 right? it will have to pass smog in california. 75 and older is exempt.
It might be easier and better in the long run to do an EFI conversion and take it to the smog referee to sign off. there is no easy way out of the california smog laws.

Having been through the smog Ref hoops before, it would be best if he does a Mustang based swap as OBDI has less hoops to jump through.

Does he have out of state friends that he could register it there? Then he could bring it into CA later, provided he got some smog items resolved...

Ca just doesn't want old vehicles here in the state... And they bend you over for the ones that are here now.

guidoverduci · Feb 24, 2018

Could he register it in another state with a title that’s in the dealers name signed to previous owner who then just gave a bill of sale? (Assuming he’s got somebody to do that for him)

guidoverduci · Feb 24, 2018

Or could he sell it out of state on eBay with just a bill of sale? And hopefully the new buyers state won’t have difficult smog and title registration laws.

sykanr0ng · Feb 24, 2018

guidoverduci said:
Or could he sell it out of state on eBay with just a bill of sale? And hopefully the new buyers state won’t have difficult smog and title registration laws.

It is MUCH harder for a buyer to get a title like that than it is for the owner to get the title issues fixed.
Unless he can find a buyer from some state that does not require a title on old vehicles.

guidoverduci · Feb 24, 2018

sykanr0ng said:
It is MUCH harder for a buyer to get a title like that than it is for the owner to get the title issues fixed.
Unless he can find a buyer from some state that does not require a title on old vehicles.

I’d hope that someone from a state that didn’t require a title would be the one to buy it!

On another note, is 4K for all parts and labor to do the mustang swap and get it to pass CA smog a good price?

sykanr0ng · Feb 24, 2018

guidoverduci said:
I’d hope that someone from a state that didn’t require a title would be the one to buy it!

On another note, is 4K for all parts and labor to do the mustang swap and get it to pass CA smog a good price?

The only state(s) I think are like that are in the Southeast so there is a small pool of buyers.

I have no idea on the Mustang EFI or CA smog regs.

SteveL · Feb 24, 2018

Not that I would ever do it but could he get a title and glove box door from a 75 or earlier and go to aaa wh I've registered all mine there and don't recall em ever looking at the frame numbers. I don't remember if they even looked for the Vin on the trucks. They ran the paperwork and did the owner swap. They took a couple pics of em since I'mI'm also insured thru aaa

guidoverduci · Feb 24, 2018

He’s got one. I don’t think the issue is whether he can register it as a 1975, but the liability down the road if there’s an issue with the frame not matching the title.

suckerpunched · Feb 24, 2018

register it using the earlier title but keep the 76 title too. If neither number comes up stolen and you have both titles how much trouble could you really get into? Claim your original frame was damaged beyond repair so you bought a roll over to fix it with. Just an idea. I might try it.

needabronco · Feb 24, 2018

Due to the fact that the glove box door is removable, they will more than likely only look at the frame VIN. In AZ and in NM that's the only one they even look at. Coming in with a mismatched title/vin unless it's obviously transposed digits will cause more trouble than it's worth.

904Bronco · Feb 24, 2018

I can tell you that for a mustang swap it must have everything that the donor vehicles has.

4 cats, EGR, functioning TAB and TAD > so air injection (smog pump) to the back of the heads and to the rear CATs. A letter or sticker from the fuel tank manufacturer (in my case Areo) that says it meets donor year requirements. Restrictions in the fuel tanks, fuel caps that pass the pressure test. A check engine light, an ECU that matches the transmission, correct code # for that year. No trouble codes stored. My Ref wanted an enclosed air cleaner, not an open K/N filter. A vacuum storage canister installed per the vacuum hose routing diagram...

I did it a few years ago, and it took 3 trips to the REF. Plus running it on the dyno at the various speeds for the test.

tirewater · Feb 24, 2018

The easiest thing to do would be to sell the vehicle with another bill of sale (him to buyer) to someone out of California. May as well pass the screaming deal on down the line.

It's not hard to pass smog, it just takes time, energy and a little money. If you install a newer engine, you'll still need evap, smog pump, egr & catalytic converter. If you decide to keep with the stock engine, you'll need evap, smog pump, egr & catalyic converter. The tail pipe test is pretty lenient for '76 vehicles, it's the visual that's a pain.

Not impossible, just an annoyance.

I passed smog today. The only odd thing this time was that I stuck one of those reproduction emissions stickers on my valve cover which caused some confusion on what the timing should be set to.

El Kabong · Feb 24, 2018

It seems like a bad plan to separate the matching title & frame. CA requires a VIN inspection of any out of state vehicle being brought in here. Will they stop at the glove box? Or want to see the frame too? When they inspected my out of state Bronco they didn't look at the frame, but it was late in the day & I think the guy wanted to get done & go home. It could get ugly if they checked the frame & your buddy's didn't match.

I think he should be able to title & non-op it without registering it. They won't give him tags without the smog cert, but should still be able to put it in his name. At least then he has proof he owns it as he tries to sell. Then probably try to sell it to someone in a state where smog equipment is not an issue. Or wait & see if CA ever moves the year up from 1975, which doesn't look promising.

tirewater · Feb 24, 2018

El Kabong said:
I think he should be able to title & non-op it without registering it.

You would think that would be the case, but I sure didn't have much luck trying that when I bought my bronco.

broncnaz · Feb 24, 2018

If he has a title that matches a frame then I would use that frame for the bronco he wants to get on the road. He can get a VIN tag that matches the frame from marti auto. Then everything will match so no issue other than smog.
On the other hand if he wants to use the frame that came with his bronco then I would have that frame stripped down ie no body or drive train parts then hit up the DMV for there take on it. If the frame VIN comes back clean then he may be able to get a new VIN assigned.

guidoverduci · Feb 24, 2018

All good stuff. Thanks! I’m not sure which route he’ll go, but I know for certain he’d have no problem registering under his 75 California title that he has lying around. It’s more of if it’s worth the headache, liability, “shady-ness” involved. It sounds like a good amount of work and parts to get it to pass smog as a 76. He’s got both titles, both are clean, I like the idea of disclosing what it really is and going with the “frame was replaced” idea.

rydog1130 · Feb 25, 2018

In Michigan you just need the title and your golden. Find someone here to get it registered at the dmv and youre good!

Vin / Title registration with Frame not matching?!

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