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Drive Shaft Help

Uncut1970

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Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
163
I have read all the previous threads, still searching for an answer.

My bronco has 3.5” of lift and the original rear shaft is about 2” too short.

32" short compressed
35 1/4" long expanded
that's from center of new u-joints

Should I have this one extended and balanced, or replaced? If replaced, what other parts are needed to do so?

What type of driveshaft is mine; like technical name?

Ford 9” diff
RAT 3sp / Dana 20
 

Apogee

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Bronco Guru
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Nov 26, 2005
Messages
6,035
Typically, the decision to replace versus re-tube for me would be the condition of the slip yoke and the double-cardan assembly. If these items need to be replaced, it's typically cheaper to just get a new shaft for a standard application like yours. What's the current condition of the shaft, other than "too short". You can always carry your old, semi-worn out unit as a trial spare to get the most utility from it.
 

Rustytruck

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
Don't monkey around with your rear driveshaft its your main driveline and your life depends on it when your tooling down the highway at 70 mph. The front being used part time you may cut corners. you can always sell the short shaft and recoup some costs. Slow speed trail rig cut and extend if you have a local driveline service.
 
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Uncut1970

Uncut1970

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May 8, 2017
Messages
163
Is it weird my front shaft fit but my rear was two inches too short? Both seem to be original
 

66broncoCT

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How is your pinion angle? If it’s off your driveshaft length will be shorter with the correct angles. A lot of people need a 6° shim with a 3.5” lift, myself included.
 

DirtDonk

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Bronco Guru
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Messages
47,478
I have read all the previous threads, still searching for an answer.
My bronco has 3.5” of lift and the original rear shaft is about 2” too short.

As you've likely seen in the other threads, this is not unheard of, but not common, or "normal" either.
Many of us (most of us maybe?) are running stock shafts on our lifted Broncos with zero problems.
Mine even measured out as needing a 1/4" shorter shaft, which was obviously not enough to worry about a replacement for.

As said, verify your pinion angle after the lift first. And the amount of lift you got too.
With the vehicle on the ground with the full weight of the truck on the suspension, you should be able to measure between the bottom of the frame and top of the axle tube to see approx. 9-10 inches. If it's more than that, your rear springs are riding a bit high initially.

On a Bronco, your pinion angle should be roughly 1-2 degrees below the imaginary center line of the drive shaft.

32" short compressed
35 1/4" long expanded
that's from center of new u-joints

Kind of seems in the normal range to me. But I'm not sure, so maybe someone here has one out of the vehicle they can measure to compare?

Should I have this one extended and balanced, or replaced? If replaced, what other parts are needed to do so?

If it turns out the shaft is indeed too short, I would get a new one. Unless yours is pretty new, the slip yoke splines are probably worn at least a bit.
Easy for me to say of course because I sell them and would love to sell you one. But only if you need it!
There are plenty of shops that will lengthen or shorten an existing shaft, but compare pricing to see if you get more for your money one way or the other.
As a comparison, ours start at $280 plus shipping, so there's at least one datapoint for you to start the list.

Depending on what type yours is (Borg/Warner vs Spicer) you may not need any additional parts at all.
If it's an early B/W style you will need a new output yoke up at the transfer case.
Here's a basic rundown and description of what to look for: Wild Horses Driveshaft Page

What type of driveshaft is mine; like technical name?

We generally call them "double-cardan shafts" named for the double-joint section up at the transfer case. A "cardan" being the old-school name for what we know as a typical u-joint.

But definitely check that pinion angle before making any other decisions.
In another shameless plug used as an example, here are the shims we sell for when needed with a lift: WH 6° Axle/Spring Shims
While most EB's probably need them after a lift, there are still plenty around that do not. Every rig is different, so worth checking.

Good luck.

Paul
 
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Uncut1970

Uncut1970

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May 8, 2017
Messages
163
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

DirtDonk

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Bronco Guru
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Looks like a Spicer at first glance, but you can compare the dimensions with those we list on that page I linked to, just to confirm.
If it is, then there is nothing else you need.

A side note on a little trick about mounting greasable type u-joints like you have. The grease fitting should be in the "compression" direction of rotation, rather than the "extension" direction. Or pushing and pulling if you prefer.
Someone else can confirm my eyesight, but I believe yours is in the extension orientation.

The issue is overall strength, where the hole for the Zerk fitting is a weak link and cracks can start there under stress.
This is not a dire thing, and many a u-joint has lived a long and happy life in that position. But when taxed to the limits, the limits are higher up when mounted so that the hole and grease fitting are in compression.

Just compare the direction of rotation of the driveshaft in forward motion and see where your grease fitting is.

Paul
 
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Uncut1970

Uncut1970

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May 8, 2017
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Ended up getting a brand new custom made at Carolina Driveline. Those guys are awesome. Located in Spartanburg SC, the owner is Tom.

He called and said “parts on the original were shot”; and that “he could still lengthen it, fix worn parts, and balance for $140 or assemble a brand new custom shaft for $198” - I went with the latter and I’m glad I did. $211 Out the door and it looks nice!
 

1strodeo

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Sep 15, 2016
Messages
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Loc.
Wisconsin
Hey folks, opinions on my Spicer shaft please, last night the u-joint at the rear axle came apart and proceeded to beat up my rear floor. Luckily I was very close to home, called the family pit crew and I was home in 10 mins with a tow strap.

It had been chirping back there recently, so I disconnected the u-joint from the axle in order to grease it about a week ago, and greased the slip yoke as well. This made it better but not for long.

Today I removed the drive shaft and found that the slip yoke is very hard for me to move back and forth...shouldn't it slide rather easily? And could this be part of the reason it broke loose? Also the double-cardan assembly looks pretty rough, to include whatever you call the joint between the u-joints.

So...am I a new drive shaft candidate or can this all be fixed? I'd prefer not to spend $300 on a new shaft but certainly will if that's what I need, thanks folks. -jeff
 

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B RON CO

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Statesville, NC
Hi, the slip shaft splines should go in and out pretty easily, but some people pump too much grease in and now the inner part has to ramrod grease instead of slipping and sliding.
You said the rear axle u joint broke, but the C V double cardan section should be bolted to the transfer case.
How was it installed? If it was backwards that could be the problem.
It looks like the ball and spring on between thing could be worn.
Good luck
 

1strodeo

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Sep 15, 2016
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3,596
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yes the single u-joint was what broke loose at the rear axle.

when I compressed the slip joint completely down a bunch of grease came out of a small hole in the end, but once that grease was all out it was still difficult to move back and forth
 

DirtDonk

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...Luckily I was very close to home, called the family pit crew and I was home in 10 mins with a tow strap.

Glad it happened so close. But fyi (in case you didn't know already) with a few basic hand tools (just a couple of combo wrenches actually) you can remove the rear shaft and drive however far you need to. Should something like this ever happen again that is.
Of course, if you didn't have tools, or were in your Sunday go-to-meetin' best and didn't want to crawl under the truck, I totally understand!;);D

It had been chirping back there recently, so I disconnected the u-joint from the axle in order to grease it about a week ago, and greased the slip yoke as well.

Just how long did it stay quiet? While it could have been the rear joint, my usual experiences with these things is that the odd chirping and such comes from something going wrong with the double-cardan section.

How much grease did you add when it was installed? Or has it been awhile?
And how tight did you run the nuts up? I think we've talked about it here before, so you probably know that it's only something like 10-15 lbs or so, with good lock-washers and perhaps some light Locktite (but I've never had a lock-washer come loose on a u-joint) but too tight, or too dry won't live very long.

Today I removed the drive shaft and found that the slip yoke is very hard for me to move back and forth...shouldn't it slide rather easily?

Yes.

And could this be part of the reason it broke loose?

Maybe, but probably only a part of it. Very likely the beating it took bouncing around tweaked something in the splines and spines and it's toast.

Also the double-cardan assembly looks pretty rough, to include whatever you call the joint between the u-joints.

The "centering yoke" is the outside bit, and the "centering ball" is the ball bit.
And yes, it's mighty beat up. But look particularly at the two flat spots on the centering yoke's eyes.
Sure looks like "witness marks" if I've ever seen one! What was it hitting and why? And how often? Was it a constant rubbing, perhaps from too much angle? Or was it simply getting beat up right at the last minute while flailing around under the truck?
Hopefully it was that last gasp that did those, and not something during normal use.

So...am I a new drive shaft candidate or can this all be fixed? I'd prefer not to spend $300 on a new shaft but certainly will if that's what I need, thanks folks.

I hear ya on the cost, especially if you can fix it. But it's going to depend on the slip shaft I think. If it's the outer part with the rear yoke, then maybe a local shaft builder has that part that they can sell. Probably costs $50-$90, depending on who's selling it and if they're hen's teeth or a common stocked part.
You "shouldn't" need to replace the centering ball/yoke assembly (and whatever else all the parts of the double-cardan holder are called complete) just from what I see, and you can buy rebuild kits for a toasted ball, but if both took a beating and need replacing, you might as well get a new shaft.

You can buy the whole thing for $300 like you said, or maybe a local shop would replace just the splined end and you can re-use your double-cardan and shaft section. That will still likely put you into the $200 range if you have it done, but it's at least worth searching to make sure.
At that point though (that $200 point) you might as well get a new shaft.

Good luck.

Paul
 

Rustytruck

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
With the eyes of the u joint beat flat and out of round I think its a goner. Especially if its a rear shaft. You would have to press out the joints and see. press out the u joint holding the centering ball and see if the stub pin is OK. If the stub pin is bad and with other u joint problems time to buy a new shaft. If you have to pay someone to do this work with parts and labor its a better choice to get a new shaft.
 

1strodeo

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Sep 15, 2016
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Wisconsin
Glad it happened so close. But fyi (in case you didn't know already) with a few basic hand tools (just a couple of combo wrenches actually) you can remove the rear shaft and drive however far you need to. Should something like this ever happen again that is.
Of course, if you didn't have tools, or were in your Sunday go-to-meetin' best and didn't want to crawl under the truck, I totally understand!;);D.

Yep I know, but 1)I've never even had it in 4x4 2)the shift handle is not installed and 3)i was in my neighborhood :cool:

Just how long did it stay quiet? While it could have been the rear joint, my usual experiences with these things is that the odd chirping and such comes from something going wrong with the double-cardan section.

How much grease did you add when it was installed? Or has it been awhile?
And how tight did you run the nuts up? I think we've talked about it here before, so you probably know that it's only something like 10-15 lbs or so, with good lock-washers and perhaps some light Locktite (but I've never had a lock-washer come loose on a u-joint) but too tight, or too dry won't live very long..

Not long, like maybe one test drive. Although i was only using a little 1/2" combo wrench I probably torqued 'em past 10-15 ft/lbs, thanks for the tip


Maybe, but probably only a part of it. Very likely the beating it took bouncing around tweaked something in the splines and spines and it's toast.

The "centering yoke" is the outside bit, and the "centering ball" is the ball bit.
And yes, it's mighty beat up. But look particularly at the two flat spots on the centering yoke's eyes.
Sure looks like "witness marks" if I've ever seen one! What was it hitting and why? And how often? Was it a constant rubbing, perhaps from too much angle? Or was it simply getting beat up right at the last minute while flailing around under the truck?
Hopefully it was that last gasp that did those, and not something during normal use...

After I added the 3.5" front/rear, I noticed a very slight vibration sometimes in 2nd gear, but nothing that would make those witness marks IMO.

When the shaft broke loose I'd say it beat on the floorpan a good 10 times, so the splines very well could be toast.

I hear ya on the cost, especially if you can fix it. But it's going to depend on the slip shaft I think. If it's the outer part with the rear yoke, then maybe a local shaft builder has that part that they can sell. Probably costs $50-$90, depending on who's selling it and if they're hen's teeth or a common stocked part.
You "shouldn't" need to replace the centering ball/yoke assembly (and whatever else all the parts of the double-cardan holder are called complete) just from what I see, and you can buy rebuild kits for a toasted ball, but if both took a beating and need replacing, you might as well get a new shaft.

You can buy the whole thing for $300 like you said, or maybe a local shop would replace just the splined end and you can re-use your double-cardan and shaft section. That will still likely put you into the $200 range if you have it done, but it's at least worth searching to make sure.
At that point though (that $200 point) you might as well get a new shaft.

Good luck.

Paul

I'm just hoping the driveline shop doesn't wait all week to tell me it needs a $200 rebuild (they are currently have a 3-5 day turnaround) when i could order a new one today! ;)

With the eyes of the u joint beat flat and out of round I think its a goner. .

Yes as I was posting those pics the other day i noticed how sketchy those eyes looked...those close up pictures sure help when your eyesight starts goin %) thanks guys
 

1strodeo

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Sep 15, 2016
Messages
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Wisconsin
shop said it could be days before they can even LOOK at it...I ordered a new one...damn snowball

today I'm like :mad::cry: but when I get the new one i'll be like :D;D:)
 

gooch66

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Dec 15, 2015
Messages
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Loc.
Germantown, TN
I was in the same situation and I had a place want to charge me $400 to lengthen the drive shat. I ordered a new one from Carolina Driveline for under $300 shipped to my door. You just need to make some measurements. Their customer service was awesome.
 
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