Steering box hung low

New guy here - can see my bronco and related pics to this post here: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AumcSQNdtf-K1_N6ILIi15ViyB8iQQ


Question I was hoping to get feedback on is the guy that built this - built a custom bracket that makes the steering box hang pretty low. Drag link and track bar are still parallel - but I'm wondering if this would have any negative impact on steering/handling? I have a fair amount of play in my steering wheel and some wander that I'm trying to resolve, but initial efforts seem to be focused on tightening or replacing steering box with a 3.75:1 unit from TBP. But am curious if hanging it low would be a contributing factor?


Thanks!

That is an old school way of getting power steering using the steering box from a two wheel drive F100/F150 and mounting it on the inside of the frame. Once quite popular back in the 90s, most vendors no longer carry it and hardly anyone does the conversion anymore due to there being much better options on the market these days. The F100/150 steering box is incredibly long and how yours is installed is correct for the conversion. Done correctly, there was nothing wrong with this conversion and it was done frequently.

Hey there, welcome!
You have what is often called the "F100" or "2-wheel drive" steering box setup. You can see it here: https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/bronco_Power_Steering_Kits

Yes, it's design can effect how the steering feels, but in general it's a well designed kit with an excellent and very reliable steering box. They do wear out of course, just like any gear box, but you should do some testing (if you have not already) to be sure that the gearbox itself is the reason for the looseness.

The only downside to this design is the shorter draglink. Longer is better, but there are many people out there using this design for many years with zero problems.
Your links are mostly parallel, but not perfectly.
One thing I would do is loosen the tie-rod adjusters and twist the centerlink "down" slightly so that not only is the grease fitting on the lower draglink end pointing a little farther forward (just a tiny bit mind you) but that will bring the lower end down a little bit and make your bars even more parallel it looks like.
Don't change it much. You optimally want it pointing up at about a 60° angle. Not sure what yours is now, but it looks steeper.

Wandering can be caused be several things. But a loose trackbar is one of the bigger and more common ones. As well as the mis-aligned links and a steering box that is not centered.
Not to mention caster...

First thing to do with any Bronco with modified suspension and/or steering is to verify that your steering wheel is centered on the on-center point of the steering box.
If you disconnect the draglink or pitman arm and turn the box both ways to full stop, counting the turns, then turn it back exactly half-way, the steering wheel should be pointed perfectly centered.
If not, re-orient the wheel so you can use it as your guide from here on out.

With the box and wheel perfectly centered then, use the adjustability of the draglink to adjust the linkage so that the Bronco tracks down the road straight when the wheel is straight ahead.

Do you happen to have an alignment printout from any previous sessions on a rack? If not, it really would be nice to know what caster you have. Camber too in fact.
I would serve you well in the future to at least get a reading. You don't have to try to get the tech to adjust anything, since they may not know how to do anything more than toe-in on a Bronco anyway. But having the information of your suspension and steering alignment is like gold.

To the ultimate end of finding out what's moving up there, with the wheels on the ground have a helper rack the steering wheel back and forth while you watch all the components. Anything that is not solid and tight may need to be replaced. There should be no excess movement of anything up front, other than a small amount of tie-rod rotation that's inherent in many steering linkages. But less is better, and for the other components, none is best.

Paul

Oh, and if you do decide to go with a more standard "outside-the-frame" gearbox, you will need a new draglink and maybe a few other things as well.

Paul

Paul/all - thanks for the quick and helpful responses! I've got the Bronco in the shop and will provide them your feedback. I'm not opposed to switching out/modernizing the power steering if the existing one is found to be bad.

Sounds good. Hopefully you can find other issues and keep the box. Not because there are not better bits out there, but because any of them are going to be a hassle (and expensive!) to retrofit, and yours looks to have been very well put together.

One of the driving forces behind the use of that particular box was availability. Original Bronco-specific boxes were, and still are like hen's teeth. And the prices reflect that. This particular box, though requiring it be mounted to the opposite side of the frame and all that implies, far easier to find, less expensive, and turned out to be super reliable and had a good "road feel" to it as well. All total bonuses!
Very few have ever actually broken one (which certainly cannot be said of the EB boxes) and only now are we seeing a few of them here on the forums that are finally wearing out in their normal lifespan.

So yours could very well need a little refurb, depending on when it was installed and how many miles are on the box. But with any luck, it's still in good shape and you simply need some tweaks elsewhere.
1. Wheel bearings are often mis-adjusted because even shops don't understand (or ignore) the factory procedure and tools.
2. Ball joints get ignored and could be original.
3. Axle shaft u-joints could be frozen up and creating a vagueness to the steering.
4. Trackbar bolts can be loose, or more commonly the holes are wallowed out.
5. Trackbar bushings can be slightly worn. It does not take much movement in the trackbar to induce wandering.
6. Tie-rod and drag-link ends can be worn. Even though your system looks good, it's not a guarantee.
7. Normally the frame can be cracked behind the steering box, but in your case it's so reinforced that is very unlikely to have anything to do with your wandering.
8. Tires.... Say no more, knowwhatimean?
9. Tire air pressure!

How old are the tires? They can have 90% of their tread left, but if they're more than five years old (8 years is the accepted max for most tire stores to even touch them) the carcass can be starting to deteriorate and give you funky-monkey motions on the road.
And air pressures? Don't get us started!%);D But suffice it to say you do NOT use the maximum stated pressure automatically. Sure, some tires work well that way in the front, but most don't. And certainly not in the rear!

Anyway, good luck with the hunt.

Paul

Oh, and a word of advice. If you take it in to a shop and the mechanic shakes the tie rods and maybe even takes a prybar to things and says "they look tight" then don't trust the answer.
About the only thing that works on anymore with a solid axle 4wd truck like ours are the ball-joints. For the wheel bearings you can use your hands too.
But for literally everything else? Not a chance. There is only one test that will showcase every loose bit and piece in the front and rear of the truck so that anyone can see the movement. That's the test that we have outlined here probably a thousand times over the years. If you have not seen it, let us know and we'll run it down for you.
Can be done in your driveway easily with a helper.

It's often a real eye-opener too. Does not take much movement in one component, especially if it's added to a tiny bit in several other components, to make a Bronco wander.

Paul

Paul is absolutely correct. There are so many variables, do what he said, post your results, let us help you interpret them. Read through death wobble on WH, Google the CB website for steering issues. It could be one thing, or 3 things, but you have a wealth of knowledge and experience here. Welcome to the adventure.
Ps, I have that F-100 box, and had it rebuilt recently and ported. Blue Top Steering in ND did a great, fast, and high quality job.
If you have flex between the drag link and tie rod, check out "the Cure" from ruff stuff specialties. But I'd wait till you get some numbers, including tire pressures before making purchases or changes.
Good luck
Forrest

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Here's how mine was set up. Note the cross-brace on the steering box.

bmc69 said:

Here's how mine was set up. Note the cross-brace on the steering box.

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That is sweet, Thx for posting, now on my to do list.

Protofab used to sell those braces.

Todd Z.

Thanks again, Paul. Still waiting to here from shop. Theyre pretty busy schedule wise so haven't gotten it on the alignment rack yet to check everything. One thing I'll add is that this restore/build was completed in Feb of 2018 - so either something was done wrong or there is a faulty part. I don't think it can be any wear.

Regarding tires - also new. 9 months old.

Will circle back when I have details. Thanks again for all the guidance - truly an invaluable community of resources!

DirtDonk said:

Oh, and a word of advice. If you take it in to a shop and the mechanic shakes the tie rods and maybe even takes a prybar to things and says "they look tight" then don't trust the answer.
About the only thing that works on anymore with a solid axle 4wd truck like ours are the ball-joints. For the wheel bearings you can use your hands too.
But for literally everything else? Not a chance. There is only one test that will showcase every loose bit and piece in the front and rear of the truck so that anyone can see the movement. That's the test that we have outlined here probably a thousand times over the years. If you have not seen it, let us know and we'll run it down for you.
Can be done in your driveway easily with a helper.

It's often a real eye-opener too. Does not take much movement in one component, especially if it's added to a tiny bit in several other components, to make a Bronco wander.

Paul

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Hi all - I put the alignment specs that I received back from shop. I looks like caster is about 4.5 - where I think I've read it should be 7, via updated bushings? Anything else stand out?

link to sheet: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AumcSQNdtf-K1_N6ILIi15ViyB8iQQ

No, your caster is perfect, at least from an early Bronco standpoint. Right up at the maximum limit for an early model.
A reading of 7 degrees is a factory setting for a later full-size Bronco, and certainly can be recommended for your Bronco as well. But most of us would be happy for anything above 3, and positively kill for your 4.5!

The numbers that the bushings are rated in are "offset" in degrees. There's no way for anyone to know what you will ultimately end up with after putting in their bushings, so they only say how much they change things. So without the 7° offset C-bushings you would have a negative-2.5 degrees instead of your positive-4.5 degrees.
Every Bronco is different. For example, with 3.5" of lift and 7 degree bushings, my '71 has only 2.5 degrees of positive caster roughly. Been awhile since I've looked at my specs, but that's pretty close.

So your caster is gold.
What about camber and toe-in?
And how does it drive?

Paul

Great to hear, Paul.

Front Camber:
L - .54"
R - .16"

Front Toe:
L - -1/32"
R - 3/16"
Total - 5/32"

Rear Camber
L - -.58"
R - -.46"

Rear Toe
L - -3.16"
R - 5/32"
Total -1/32"

I haven't driven it yet, but shop said components in rear suspension was loose - re torqued read and front parts. Said drives straight and smooth. But does get 'wavy' on roads w/ a high crown. They're suggesting a steering stabilizer - do you agree?

Thanks again for all the guidance!

Straight axle trucks wander when encountering high crowned and/or tire-grooved roads. They just do....steering stabilizer does not affect that.

Steering stabilizers are good at reducing the magnitude of transient event feeback...what you end up feeling in the steering wheel when rolling over rougher terrain, gravel/dirt roads etc.

What bmc said. Many of us run without them and don't feel any difference under normal circumstances.

And man, those are some sweet settings on your front end!

jwarnat said:

Front Camber:
L - .54" R - .16"

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Officially out of spec, but luckily they're right in the sweet spot of what we have been recommending lately!
The right side is a tad low, but if it drives well, you're in business anyway. And tire wear should be minimal I would think.
(edit: those are negative numbers? Should be positive on a Bronco, but if they work for you, leave them be for now. But that might be why it could act strange on crowns too)

jwarnat said:

Front Toe:
L - -1/32" R - 3/16"
Total - 5/32"

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Finally, someone that still give out toe-in readings in inches instead of degrees! Those are numbers I understand. Like I don't have a problem using Kilometers for miles, but it makes my mind hurt anyway.
Fractions of an inch for toe-in still make sense to me because that's what I used for 50 years.
Your toe-in is actually right in the range. But it's also something that you can easily experiment with at home when you feel like it.
If you ever feel like the truck is a bit darty, or a bit wandery, you could turn the tie-rod adjuster(s) a tiny bit and then drive it again for a week to see what you think. You never know, you might just discover your happy place.

Have fun with it!

Paul

Thanks again, Paul. The front camber numbers were positive, not negative - so it seems nothing is screaming out to you as a big yellow or red flag. Good to know! Now I just need to get over there to drive it again to see if the wander is gone!

Don't forget to check anything that the guy said was loose in the rear too.
Even though the rear won't normally have as obvious or pronounced an effect as stuff in the front does usually, it'll still let you know something is up.

Wheel bearings, u-bolts, spring bushings, etc all play their part. As do tires most of all!
I don't know from rear alignment readings myself. Maybe someone can comment specifically on your rear end settings.
Maybe the toe-in could be better? Camber? Something else?

It's not like you can adjust any of that easily of course, but knowing if something is out enough to cause trouble is at least a good first step.

Did you ever say what tires, and what tire pressure you were running?

Paul

When you had yours rebuilt - do you change the ration (I think I've seen reco is 3.75:1?)? I just noticed mine is leaking so may have to go down this route as well.

74 Bronco Billy said:

Paul is absolutely correct. There are so many variables, do what he said, post your results, let us help you interpret them. Read through death wobble on WH, Google the CB website for steering issues. It could be one thing, or 3 things, but you have a wealth of knowledge and experience here. Welcome to the adventure.
Ps, I have that F-100 box, and had it rebuilt recently and ported. Blue Top Steering in ND did a great, fast, and high quality job.
If you have flex between the drag link and tie rod, check out "the Cure" from ruff stuff specialties. But I'd wait till you get some numbers, including tire pressures before making purchases or changes.
Good luck
Forrest

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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