Mechanic Hours per Mod

There may be another thread covering this already but I could not find it. This may be a good one to make "sticky" if there are enough replies...

I have been collecting quotes from several local mechanics regarding anticipated hours of labor to complete various modifications on my 1969... they are all over the place, leading me to believe they have no clue.

I thought it might be helpful to create a thread where you could post real world experience and labor costs to help the rest of us keep our mechanics in line.

Some of mine were:
Vintage Air install, quoted anywhere from 8 to 17 labor hours... $640-$1700

Centech Wiring Harness; quoted 15-20 hours, $1500-$2200

The list goes on. I'd like to here what you all have experienced for there and other common modifications

And ..what cost per hour. My shop rate is $127/hr....and we're cheap..

Never paid, did the work myself.

That's a good Idea.. But I do believe it'd be hard to put together. & Without BEING ugly to the mechanic on our sight. I've worked around Techs for about 50 years.
Most have no sympathy for the Previous Tech they are following up. SO If one says it'll take 5 hours to do that job. & THE next one say it's only a 3 hour job. & The 1st guy is a DUMB BUTT he don't know what he's doing .. Then no.2 can't finish it in 3 .. He says your truck had something that made it to where it took him 2 day to straighten up what the previous tech had screwed up.
...............
... But I'd like say for AC installs across the good old USA. IT TOOK 6 HOURS & THIS IS WHAT I GOT DONE. & PRICE PER HOUR..
...........
... BUT I JUST SAW A TECH CHARGE 7 HOUR TO INSTALL BOTH DOOR HANDLES . 695.00 Labor to install 2 door handles. BUT THE DOORS NOW SHUT. He said my Buddy was paying for what he knew. Yap.

My machine shop guy in Tucson is $60.00 an hour and he thinks he is high sometimes the best in town but don’t be in a hurry to get it back

Uncut1970 said:

...they have no clue.

Click to expand...

That's partially correct, but not necessarily in the way you think.

I've been a pro at several dealerships & independent shops, and I still consult at a few. So I have a lot of experience with a lot of vehicle brands, models, years, & conditions. And I've met a lot of other pros who have even more experience than I do.

So you need to understand that just because you imagine that it's one job you're pricing at 20 shops, it's not. It's 40 or more jobs/prices. Because each mechanic can do a REALLY-thorough, detailed, nitpicking job like he'd do on a vehicle his grandfather used to take him hunting in; or he can do a quick&dirty job for a cheapskate customer who just needs the vehicle fixed enough to unload it on some sucker. That's 2 distinct jobs with WIDELY-varying levels of effort & time. ...for EACH mechanic/shop that prices it.

Then you have to consider the condition of the vehicle... The shop/mech. you take it to doesn't really know how rusty, muddy, patched, welded, or ready-to-fall-apart-at-the-next-butterfly-effect your vehicle is. A vehicle that has either been well-preserved (like in the desert) or thoroughly-restored already (like the one I built for Frank) is much easier to work on, and has much lower risk of incidental damage (like ripping the A-pillar off when trying to remove a hinge bolt), than one that has been abandoned in a closed barn, or hogged through a swamp every weekend for the past decade.

And he doesn't have time to find out the details of its condition, just to give you an estimate - it could take hours of inspecting to get to the meat of whatever particular job you're asking about that day, and you're not going to pay for that time. So he's not going to waste it. He's going to glance at the vehicle & look really hard at you, and then guess the MOST time it might take him, and how much you're willing to pay.

He also has to consider the likelihood of you actually giving him the job, given that you're shopping around. If you're not that interested in getting HIM to do the work, then you might go to 20 other shops - that gives him a 1/20 chance of getting it, so why bother? And why offer you a low price? Just for the privilege of working on your rustbucket? He probably has 3 or 8 rustbuckets of his own at home or behind the shop that he'd rather mess with, if he's not making much money anyway.

And you're right that he probably doesn't have a clue about that particular job on that particular antique - how many eBs do you think he works on each month? Each year? In his lifetime? Do you think he has ever done that job on an eB before? Does he think he'll ever do that job on an eB again? So to cover his @$$, he's going to price it near the high end of what he expects. Or if he's desperate for work, and willing to risk a loss, he'll price it low. But if you try to hold him to that lowball price, do you think you're going to get museum-quality work out of him? Or a happy goodbye?

Of course you have to look out for YOUR bottom line. But to get good work from a pro at a price you can agree on, you have to try to see his point of view, and consider his considerations. No, he doesn't know anything about putting aftermarket A/C in a '69 Bronco. But that doesn't make him "clueless". He can probably identify, diagnose, repair, & road-test an A/C problem in a modern vehicle that you wouldn't even notice in one work day. WHILE getting 4 other vehicles repaired.

But working on antiques is a whole other ballgame, which is why many shops don't even accept that kind of work.

So while you can compile a very-interesting list of prices from hundreds of members from hundreds of jobs in hundreds of cities;, you can't apply any of them to any other vehicle (no matter how identical it seems to you) at the same or any other shop in the same or any other city at the same or any other time.

And you certainly can't "keep the mechanics in line" ;D by telling them you heard on the internet about someone else getting a similar job done on a vehicle you perceive as similar to yours. If someone told me that, I'd just tell him to take his vehicle to THAT mechanic, and see if he gets the same price.

...and my price to him would probably go up 50-200%.

Steve83 said:

That's partially correct, but not necessarily in the way you think.

I've been a pro at several dealerships & independent shops, and I still consult at a few. So I have a lot of experience with a lot of vehicle brands, models, years, & conditions. And I've met a lot of other pros who have even more experience than I do.

So you need to understand that just because you imagine that it's one job you're pricing at 20 shops, it's not. It's 40 or more jobs/prices. Because each mechanic can do a REALLY-thorough, detailed, nitpicking job like he'd do on a vehicle his grandfather used to take him hunting in; or he can do a quick&dirty job for a cheapskate customer who just needs the vehicle fixed enough to unload it on some sucker. That's 2 distinct jobs with WIDELY-varying levels of effort & time. ...for EACH mechanic/shop that prices it.

Then you have to consider the condition of the vehicle... The shop/mech. you take it to doesn't really know how rusty, muddy, patched, welded, or ready-to-fall-apart-at-the-next-butterfly-effect your vehicle is. And he doesn't have time to find out, just to give you an estimate - it could take hours of inspecting to get to the meat of whatever particular job you're asking about that day, and you're not going to pay for that time. So he's not going to waste it. He's going to glance at the vehicle & look really hard at you, and then guess the MOST time it might take him, and how much you're willing to pay.

He also has to consider the likelihood of you actually giving him the job, given that you're shopping around. If you're not that interested in getting HIM to do the work, then you might go to 20 other shops - that gives him a 1/20 chance of getting it, so why bother? And why offer you a low price? Just for the privilege of working on your rustbucket? He probably has 3 or 8 rustbuckets of his own at home or behind the shop that he'd rather mess with, if he's not making much money anyway.

And you're right that he probably doesn't have a clue about that particular job on that particular antique - how many eBs do you think he works on each month? Each year? In his lifetime? Do you think he has ever done that job on an eB before? Does he think he'll ever do that job on an eB again? So to cover his @$$, he's going to price it near the high end of what he expects. Or if he's desperate for work, and willing to risk a loss, he'll price it low. But if you try to hold him to that lowball price, do you think you're going to get museum-quality work out of him? Or a happy goodbye?

Of course you have to look out for YOUR bottom line. But to get good work from a pro at a price you can agree on, you have to try to see his point of view, and consider his considerations. No, he doesn't know anything about putting aftermarket A/C in a '69 Bronco. But that doesn't make him "clueless". He can probably identify, diagnose, repair, & road-test an A/C problem in a modern vehicle that you wouldn't even notice in one work day. WHILE getting 4 other vehicles repaired.

But working on antiques is a whole other ballgame, which is why many shops don't even accept that kind of work.

So while you can compile a very-interesting list of prices from hundreds of members from hundreds of jobs in hundreds of cities;, you can't apply any of them to any other vehicle (no matter how identical it seems to you) at the same or any other shop in the same or any other city at the same or any other time.

And you certainly can't "keep the mechanics in line" ;D by telling them you heard on the internet about someone else getting a similar job done on a vehicle you perceive as similar to yours. If someone told me that, I'd just tell him to take his vehicle to THAT mechanic, and see if he gets the same price.

...and my price to him would probably go up 50-200%.

Click to expand...

Touché... I feel like an idiot now! Very enlightening, and very much appreciated post.

I realize every case will be different, but leaving $$$$ out of the discussion, is there any way to create a list of what certain mods have taken to complete, a range, a general expectation one would have going into the general modification?

Example

Converting drums to disks on a D30, should be anywhere from 3-5 hours


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Uncut1970 said:

I feel like an idiot now!

Click to expand...

Don't. If you're not on the other side of the wall, you can't expect to understand the ins & outs of ANY business. Whatever you do for a living; I'd probably have no idea what problems you have to deal with every day.

Uncut1970 said:

...is there any way to create a list of what certain mods have taken to complete, a range, a general expectation one would have going into the general modification?

Click to expand...

Yes, for modern vehicles that haven't rusted, been wrecked, been modified, or been driven hood-deep through salt water yet. It's published by several companies & sold to repair shops who use that data to estimate (and sometimes quote) job times & labor costs.

But for antiques, those published times no longer apply. The average time to replace the hinges on an eB from AZ will be a LOT less than for one from FL because the bolts will actually unscrew. But some people in AZ may have to shop as far as FL to buy an eB they like, so you can't strictly go by regions. And someone in FL might do a thorough restoration, then start taking the truck to a normal repair shop (like Frank did after I built his), so the bolts would come out easily even on a truck that has always been in the deep South.

Uncut1970 said:

Example
Converting drums to disks on a D30, should be...

Click to expand...

How long since the D30 drums have been serviced? Were they serviced correctly, or are all the bolt heads rusted/rounded off? Are the bolt threads rust-locked, threadlocked, or did some conscientious mechanic anti-seize them all a few years ago? What brand disk kit is going on? Is it complete, or do some parts have to be sourced locally? Who is going to do that work? Will the correct local parts be delivered with the vehicle, or will the shop have to push the valuable antique into & out of the shop every day while waiting for the right parts?

You see? There are a thousand nuances to each job on an antique vehicle.

I do almost all my own work, but work I can't (or don't want to) handle, I take to a specialty shop, usually a custom car/hot rod shop. They charge more per hour, but they've done the work on many vehicles and have the skills to do it faster and correct the first time, AND make it look nice. The shop doing my custom paint specializes in 55-57 Chevy's but they do work on all kinds of cars being modified. They have one guy that all he does is wiring. He's doing a 68 Camaro now that has electronic everything. Windows, mirrors, seats, door locks, trunk, Bluetooth, suspensions, back-up cameras , computers, you name it. He can do it faster than a general mechanic, and it'll be right when he's done, but you'll pay more for him per hour than the general mechanic. Less time but more money per time and done right. You'll typically save money in the long run. If you want a carb tuned you can go to a general mechanic or a guy who only does carbs who will have knowledge to do it right and fast. Want your Bronco aligned? You can pay cheaper prices at a chain shop like firestone and they'll tell you they did the best they could or you can take it to a shop that specializes in 4X4 Trucks and it'll be done right for a little more money. It's a philosophy.

The other hint is to call the manufacturer of your part and ask who they recommend in your zip code. I went to a general welder to have my Ruff Stuff steering components welded. Huge mistake. I had to re-order some parts and I asked them to recommend someone in my area. They named a shop that builds racers for King of the Hammers and was a customer of theirs. That shop did the job right for less than the general welder charged.

Ok

You win

Makes a lot sense, I get it...

I'll delete the thread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Remember it's called shop rate of data pulled from a book on current, relatively current vehicles for normal repairs like tranny work on a stock tranny. No way anyone has a shop rate book to install an aftermarket AC unit in a 40 YO truck.

Don't delete the thread, you are not the only one this will explain it to.

In recent years more new Bronco owners who are not mechanics or even mechanically inclined have started to come here, unlike in past years when much of the work was done by the owner.
They are now dealing with 'technicians' who are trained to work on newer vehicles instead of mechanics who were working on older cars and trucks since when those were new.

I'm with many others Don't delete this .. There is still a lot of helpful info in a post like this..
Heck If just when someone has a job done... Post up I'm happy with 5 hours to pack my front wheel bearings...
Or He I think 5 hours is way too much time to pack my bearings.
. I'll bet I've packed 50 set of wheel bearings & I don't think I could do a set in less than 5 hours.
... But leave the post up .. I'd like to know how long it take others to say swap out a rear Pumkin ..

I agree that “odd” jobs exist on these older vehicles and there are LOTS of variables as some have previously mentioned. However- as a consumer, there should be a common range to expect to pay. You shouldn’t have to take your vehicle to a mechanic/specialist and be completely subject to being taken advantage of because of those variables. If a bolt is rusted and can’t easily be taken out, that may take an extra hour but not 5. If swapping a drum brake to a disc brake, the lets are readily available and easily ordered so there is a difference between parts cost and labor cost.

I think this is a valid thread and should not be deleted. There are things that are clearly common sense to you get what you paid for. Example- a Maaco paint job is vastly different than a 3 stage paint job from a hot rod shop. Labor costs also vary be geographical location. It’s still nice to know generally what something should cost so there is an educated conversation between mechanic and customer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And- to add, I paid $200 for a D20 assembly but had already pulled it, cleaned it, painted it and provided the complete rebuild kit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

73azbronco said:

Remember it's called shop rate of data pulled from a book on current, relatively current vehicles for normal repairs like tranny work on a stock tranny. No way anyone has a shop rate book to install an aftermarket AC unit in a 40 YO truck.

Click to expand...

By coincidence.....I was recently cleaning out attic and storage areas in the building on a commercial property we recently acquired in Va. it had been n auto repair shop for decades. Boxes full of old Flat Rate books and Motors repair books. Going back in to the 50s. I'll see if one or more cover the EB. The 1966 Motors manual does.

bmc69 said:

And ..what cost per hour. My shop rate is $127/hr....and we're cheap..

Click to expand...

Yeah. But you don't work on broncos.

bax said:

Yeah. But you don't work on broncos.

Click to expand...

Good reasons for that..... We're so expensive we can't afford ourself.

I think the biggest advantage to this thread is having a ballpark for the number of hours a job should take then you can multiply hours by the shop rate and get a ballpark, or if you plan to do something yourself you can get an idea of minimum hours you will need to complete the job

Sent from my SM-P580 using Tapatalk