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Distributor Wiring???

Justafordguy

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 26, 2009
Messages
6,253
I'd just replace the pickup (easy job) and any other harness wires on the engine that don't look good and keep on trucking. ;D
 

ntsqd

heratic car camper
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,224
Loc.
Upper SoKA
I had to look twice, but I don't think that the reluctor is missing a lobe. It's just blending into the background in the pic.

And since I didn't see it listed, the way that I R&R these parts:
Easiest way that I've found to lift the reluctor off is to use two big flat blade screw-drivers. Mark the reluctor orientation first. It shouldn't matter, but play it safe. Place the tips under the webs of the reluctor opposite of each other and gently push down on the screw-driver handles. DO NOT PRY ON THE LOBES! Typically after a little initial resistance they come right up. Maybe 1 in 10 needs a little soaking with PB Blaster. Be Sure To Capture the Tiny Roll Pin in the matching grooves on the ID of the reluctor and the OD of the shaft.

Next is the pick-up assembly. Remove the two screws that hold the vacuum advance unit to the dist body. Then there is a tiny 'E' clip that holds the vacuum advance pull-rod to the pick-up assembly. Remove it and put it somewhere safe. I like to put both it and the tiny roll pin on a magnet so they aren't likely to go flying if bumped. Fish the advance arm off the pin and out of the body.
Lastly there is a tiny round wire ring in an OD groove that holds the pick-up assembly to the base plate. Sometimes these are easy to see, sometimes not. Either way gently pry it out of the groove and remove it. With some wiggling to shear off the dried grease the pick-up assembly should lift straight up. One of the base plate screws holds the ground tab sticking out of the grommet down to the body. Remove it and the pick-up assembly should be clear.

Reassembly is the reverse. I use a moly wheel bearing grease on the pick-up assembly pivot. It doesn't take much, fill the grooves on the base plate piece and that's enough. If the felt in the very center under the rotor is still there give it a squirt or two of engine oil.
 

jckkys

Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
5,196
The magnetic pickup will give you a new male part of the burned connector. I have a few of the female plugs with the correct color coded wires. PM me with your address and I'll send you one you can splice onto your harness.
 
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msommer001

msommer001

Full Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
370
I had to look twice, but I don't think that the reluctor is missing a lobe. It's just blending into the background in the pic.



And since I didn't see it listed, the way that I R&R these parts:

Easiest way that I've found to lift the reluctor off is to use two big flat blade screw-drivers. Mark the reluctor orientation first. It shouldn't matter, but play it safe. Place the tips under the webs of the reluctor opposite of each other and gently push down on the screw-driver handles. DO NOT PRY ON THE LOBES! Typically after a little initial resistance they come right up. Maybe 1 in 10 needs a little soaking with PB Blaster. Be Sure To Capture the Tiny Roll Pin in the matching grooves on the ID of the reluctor and the OD of the shaft.



Next is the pick-up assembly. Remove the two screws that hold the vacuum advance unit to the dist body. Then there is a tiny 'E' clip that holds the vacuum advance pull-rod to the pick-up assembly. Remove it and put it somewhere safe. I like to put both it and the tiny roll pin on a magnet so they aren't likely to go flying if bumped. Fish the advance arm off the pin and out of the body.

Lastly there is a tiny round wire ring in an OD groove that holds the pick-up assembly to the base plate. Sometimes these are easy to see, sometimes not. Either way gently pry it out of the groove and remove it. With some wiggling to shear off the dried grease the pick-up assembly should lift straight up. One of the base plate screws holds the ground tab sticking out of the grommet down to the body. Remove it and the pick-up assembly should be clear.



Reassembly is the reverse. I use a moly wheel bearing grease on the pick-up assembly pivot. It doesn't take much, fill the grooves on the base plate piece and that's enough. If the felt in the very center under the rotor is still there give it a squirt or two of engine oil.



I started the removal. Definitely will need a few sprays of PB. I will have to be gentle, the distributor housing is plastic and I don’t want it to break.

The rotor came off with a good pull. Before I removed it, I rotated the motor to 10 degrees before TDC. Then I marked the rotor position. It appears that is about 180 degrees of of phase with the #1 plug. You might need to zoom in a bit but in the second photo you can see the number “1” that identifies the number 1 cylinder. The rotor is face the opposite direction. There is only one set of timing marks on the balancer. Not sure what all that means??? For the most part the truck has ran well so I don’t think there is any catastrophic issues.

The felt is there so I will apply some engine old when all done.

Hope I am headed down the right path. Always enjoy wrenching and learning new things.

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On another note, should I plug this port on the top of the carb. I don’t have anything plugged into it.
0b070e2c3f640cec077fe8a77d1d093a.jpg




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ntsqd

heratic car camper
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,224
Loc.
Upper SoKA
The plastic part is an adapter. If you look on it's sides you'll see two clips like those that hold the cap in place, holding it to the dist. body. Pop those loose (not always easy insutu) and the adapter will come up and off.

the "1" is where Ford intends you to place the #1 spark plug cable. That the rotor is pointing 180° away from it just means that it's pointing at #6 Nothing to worry about.

The port on the carb is a bowl vent. It is there to direct hot shut-down boil-off to the charcoal canister. If you still have one of those then that's where it should be connected. Dirt can enter the fuel thru there, so it needs to either be plugged or connected to something that will filter the air.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
...Before I removed it, I rotated the motor to 10 degrees before TDC. Then I marked the rotor position. It appears that is about 180 degrees of of phase with the #1 plug.

The rotor is face the opposite direction. There is only one set of timing marks on the balancer. Not sure what all that means???

You're right about it being 180 out. In fact, you'll read that exact phrase in practically every discussion about distributors to this day!
What tends to get forgotten in the heat of battle is that the distributor turns at half the speed of the crankshaft. So your TDC markings come around TWICE in a 4-stroke (4-cycle) engine's, well, cycle.
If you turn the crankshaft another full revolution then, your rotor will then be pointing more at the #1 mark's wire after all.

In your case, as you figured out because it was running before, is that you don't need to do anything and it's not causing any trouble. Where it does cause trouble is when you're changing a distributor, or even just the wires, and get it on the wrong stroke.
That's when things get really interesting and you can't get the engine to start and usually you get a nice backfire and flames through the carburetor!

So you're all good. Just remember suck, squeeze, bang, blow. The four segments of your engine. In basic form, you have intake, compression (spark), power, exhaust.
So being on the compression stroke, the spark only happens every other crank rotation.

Your 10° in this case is BTDC. Where "TDC" or top dead center, is officially at the top of the compression stroke. There is actually another TDC on the exhaust stroke, but we never talk about that in terms of tuning or timing an engine. Only when it comes to camshaft design is it really referred to much. Otherwise you can "assume" that TDC means the compression stroke only.

Clear as mud?
Next time you look at a pair of timing gears, notice that the cam, or driven gear is twice the circumference as the crank gear. Since the camshaft has another gear that drives the distributor, the distributor rotates at half speed.

Fun stuff...;)

Paul
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
Oh, and that cap adapter ntsqd talked about is why you'll find out that your distributor's main body is the same one that was used pre-Duraspark back when they used a smaller cap and rotor.
Instead of changing the whole thing when they needed the larger cap and rotor, they simply made an extension housing/adapter thingy to mate the new caps to the old body style.

Paul
 
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msommer001

msommer001

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Jan 15, 2009
Messages
370
I got this all put back together and now there is a dead spot when I accelerate. I did adjust the timing and that did not seem to make a different. I am not sure where to start... Any help would be great. I was thinking about updating the coil and distributor. How do I know if it is carb issue, any recommendations for a replacement 2 barrel carburetor?


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DirtDonk

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Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
You could be experiencing a lean condition upon acceleration. This would give you a dead spot immediately on take off. It would not normally effect you mid-way though.
Where exactly is it bogging out? Just during take-off? Or after you're already rolling along?

Sorry I didn't re-read the whole discussion yet, so sorry if you already explained it.

Paul
 
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msommer001

msommer001

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370
Starts up no problem bogs our right when I take off. Maybe accelerator pump?


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DirtDonk

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47,345
Yep, that's one of the things I was thinking of.

Easy to check with the air cleaner off. Just poke your head down the carb (engine off of course!) and manipulate the throttle. You should see a reasonably good strong squirt of gas as soon as you start pushing. The faster you push, the more you should see.

Another thing is vacuum leaks of course. They happen at a moment's notice, but would have to be pretty big to bog down the engine. Most of the time they make themselves noticed by a rough idle for small ones. Really rough for larger ones. And only the big ones will usually make your engine bog on acceleration.
But if your air/fuel mixture is lean already, it would not take as big a leak to make things act up.

The wrong PCV valve has been known to lean out a mix enough to do it. I had it happen once and it was wildly noticeable.

Incorrect ignition timing is another. Coupled with using full manifold vacuum for the advance mechanism can sometimes do it. Except when it's supposed to have full vacuum that is.
It's ok to use full vacuum, and your '77 would likely have come that way originally in all it's smog-reduced glory. But sometimes it will act like this if everything else isn't dialed in just right.
You said you messed with the timing and it didn't help, so I guess that could rule out the base timing. But where is your vacuum advance connected to? Is it still original with all it's tubing running through multiple locations and little disc-like vacuum reducers and multi-ported thermal switching valves? Or does the vacuum hose run straight to the carburetor?

And last of course is just too lean (small jet size) but that would not have changed by itself if you didn't do it. And since you didn't mess with the carburetor it sounds like(?) we can stick with ignition timing and vacuum leaks for now.
One test to rule out the PCV valve though, would be to cap it off and drive it. If the bog goes away, perhaps you have the wrong valve installed. Could easily have been changed in a previous tune-up and overlooked.

I'm assuming in all this that you changed the orientation of the distributor from the last discussions of being 180 out?
What about the damper? Did you change it? If so, before you installed it did you compare the timing marks to your old one?

Paul
 

Rustytruck

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
Looks like I can replace the pick up coil. Anyone have a videos or photos showing removal and installation?


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Do not use a cheep replacement part they are not all created equal. I try to hunt down old stock Motorcraft parts.

Its easy to remove.

Pull the cap

remove the rotor

remove the vacuum canister screws and the little c-clip holding the canister arm.

pry up the Reluctor (cast iron Crown) 2 screwdrivers will do.

There is a roll pin between the shaft and Reluctor don't loose it it keeps the reluctor in its proper orientation and tight to the shaft.

under the reluctor there is a round wire snap ring. use an icepick to pop it out. This holds the stator down.

Remove the phillips screw from the base plate and unhook the wire from the body

Unplug the stator wiring harness.

https://www.google.com/search?q=for...UICygC&biw=1024&bih=687#imgrc=asB1zmxu8v-AnM:

Takes 10 minutes what ever you do don't loose the clip and roll pin, stick them to a magnetic or in a plastic bag. Its not easy to find a replacement for them.

Reverse to install.
 
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msommer001

msommer001

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Yep, that's one of the things I was thinking of.

Easy to check with the air cleaner off. Just poke your head down the carb (engine off of course!) and manipulate the throttle. You should see a reasonably good strong squirt of gas as soon as you start pushing. The faster you push, the more you should see.

Another thing is vacuum leaks of course. They happen at a moment's notice, but would have to be pretty big to bog down the engine. Most of the time they make themselves noticed by a rough idle for small ones. Really rough for larger ones. And only the big ones will usually make your engine bog on acceleration.
But if your air/fuel mixture is lean already, it would not take as big a leak to make things act up.

The wrong PCV valve has been known to lean out a mix enough to do it. I had it happen once and it was wildly noticeable.

Incorrect ignition timing is another. Coupled with using full manifold vacuum for the advance mechanism can sometimes do it. Except when it's supposed to have full vacuum that is.
It's ok to use full vacuum, and your '77 would likely have come that way originally in all it's smog-reduced glory. But sometimes it will act like this if everything else isn't dialed in just right.
You said you messed with the timing and it didn't help, so I guess that could rule out the base timing. But where is your vacuum advance connected to? Is it still original with all it's tubing running through multiple locations and little disc-like vacuum reducers and multi-ported thermal switching valves? Or does the vacuum hose run straight to the carburetor?

And last of course is just too lean (small jet size) but that would not have changed by itself if you didn't do it. And since you didn't mess with the carburetor it sounds like(?) we can stick with ignition timing and vacuum leaks for now.
One test to rule out the PCV valve though, would be to cap it off and drive it. If the bog goes away, perhaps you have the wrong valve installed. Could easily have been changed in a previous tune-up and overlooked.

I'm assuming in all this that you changed the orientation of the distributor from the last discussions of being 180 out?
What about the damper? Did you change it? If so, before you installed it did you compare the timing marks to your old one?

Paul



I will check the accelerator pump as you noted, thanks for that. The vacuum advance is connected directly to the carburetor. When I changed the pick up coil, I replaced it exactly as it was, marked the distributor and aligned it exactly like it was. Probably a good idea to get the timing light out to double check the timing. I did not replace the damper.


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msommer001

msommer001

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I will check the accelerator pump as you noted, thanks for that. The vacuum advance is connected directly to the carburetor. When I changed the pick up coil, I replaced it exactly as it was, marked the distributor and aligned it exactly like it was. Probably a good idea to get the timing light out to double check the timing. I did not replace the damper.


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I finally had a chance to get a look down into the carburetor and was able to see 2 streams of fuel squirting into the carburetor. Any thoughts on the next steps?

Thanks again for the information.


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msommer001

msommer001

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I finally had a chance to get a look down into the carburetor and was able to see 2 streams of fuel squirting into the carburetor. Any thoughts on the next steps?

Thanks again for the information.


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I also did a quick check of the vacuum advance by sucking on the hose, it pulled and held. Should I check to make sure the carb is creating vacuum? If so what is the best way?

Thanks.


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DirtDonk

Contributor
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Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
...When I changed the pick up coil, I replaced it exactly as it was, marked the distributor and aligned it exactly like it was. Probably a good idea to get the timing light out to double check the timing.

Not just a good idea, but as most of us that mess with engines will attest, virtually a necessity!
Any time you mess with the distributor body, or any of it's components, the potential for changing the timing exists. It's not guaranteed of course, and many of us have gotten lucky and the timing fell right where it was prior to the work.
But more often than not the timing gets skewed by at least a few degrees. So it's always worth checking the timing after you're done mucking about with the distributor.

I did not replace the damper.

That's good, assuming you know also that it was never done by a PO.
A lot of timing/tuning woes come about because Ford used multiple orientations for the timing marks and pointers.

I finally had a chance to get a look down into the carburetor and was able to see 2 streams of fuel squirting into the carburetor. Any thoughts on the next steps?

Yes. Time to hunt for vacuum leaks.
And verify the proper functioning (or close to it) of the PCV system.
Let us know if you need some step-by-step, or suggestions on testing.

I also did a quick check of the vacuum advance by sucking on the hose, it pulled and held. Should I check to make sure the carb is creating vacuum? If so what is the best way?

Well, the easiest way (assuming there is no vacuum gauge available) is to pull the hose off at the distributor advance end with the engine running and put a finger over the end of the hose.
If it's full vacuum you will easily feel a pull on your skin when you pull your finger away. Also, you should already have noted a change in idle speed/quality simply by unhooking the hose and leaving the end open.

If it's ported (or "timed") vacuum, you won't feel anything initially, or note any change in idle. But with a finger tip over the end of the hose, open the throttle up a little and you should start to feel the pull of vacuum as the throttle blades open up past the slot that feeds that port.

If you don't feel vacuum under either circumstance, then either the port in the carb is blocked somehow (very rare, but likely not impossible) or something is plugging up the hose itself.

Hope that helps.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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Messages
47,345
I forgot you already said you had checked timing. Correct?
If it's still running at the 10° you set it to before, you should be good in that regard I would think.
But it still never hurts to verify so you're not fighting an unknown.
One of the beauties of electronic distributors was that timing stayed WAY more stable and did not change over time near as much. But things can slip after all, so never shy away from verifying your previous readings even if it means taking some extra time up front.

So we're still trying to get rid of a dead spot? Is it acting the same as before?
Maybe when you have the timing light connected you should watch the advance progression as you slowly rev up the engine. This will tell you if you have an advance problem.

Maybe something sticky in the distributor. Or since you were in there before this started happening, maybe something got bent or tweaked and the advance weights are sticking?
Maybe the vacuum advance is not fully functioning because of something sticking.

One thing you can do with a distributor that most people don't know about is lubricate it inside the mechanism.
If it's dirty/dusty/ugly under there, you can even use something aggressive like carb cleaner first. Brake cleaner is probably better though, so that it evaporates quickly enough to not harm the plastic coatings on the wires and the magnetic pickup.
Then a few shots of WD40 or similar into the area of the weights and springs (if you can get something under the upper plate) so that they move as freely as possible.

Usually you would wipe up any excess getting sprayed around, but the cool thing about WD is that it's not flammable, per sé, and can even be used on ignition points.
The "WD" in the name stands for "water displacement" (formula #40 by the way) and was originally developed to spray into wet distributors to get an engine running again.

So it's pretty benign stuff as long as you don't overdo it.

Paul
 
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