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Old 09/16/18, 02:32 AM   #1
PDQ
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Alignment help- again

I have searched the forums a lot, but I can't wrap my head around what's correct. Some of you are using degrees and some are using inches which isn't helping anything!
I just need to know, are my numbers good, or do I need to adjust? I am particularly confused at the camber.

Truck is a '72 with a 3.5"lift, dropped pitman and drag link bracket, both seemingly very parallel, 7 degree C bushings, 33" MT tires, stock radius arms, power steering

I just need to know, am I good,? Or do I need to look at spindle shims or cocentric ball joint adapters.

Thanks and I'm sorry for the post with lots of previous information, but I just cant make out where I should be.
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Last edited by PDQ; 09/16/18 at 12:07 PM.. Reason: Fixed header spelling
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Old 09/16/18, 04:48 AM   #2
B RON CO
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Hi, your camber is just a little bit in. But it is very hard to adjust. This means the top of the tires are tipped in towards the inside.
The castor looks great. The tops of the tires are tipped to the back just right.
You need a little less toe in. A member here suggested .15 on each side. If you can adjust each side I think it would be less than a 1/4 turn out ( make the tie rod longer) on the left, and maybe 1/3 turn out on the right.
Some Broncos only adjust from one sleeve and I would try @ 1/2 turn out.
You can learn how to measure toe and check it with a tape measure. You will probably see @ 1/8 toe in.
Try @ 3/16 toe in. The setting is not set in stone, but a guideline.
How does it feel on the road? You may get the to right on the money and not feel any difference, but it is worth checking. Good luck
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Old 09/16/18, 09:18 AM   #3
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Your numbers look great. Positive camber , great caster numbers. Maybe a touch high toe in, but you can play with that if need be. I wouldn't change a thing.

I'm guessing that you installed the 7 degree "C"'s when you did your lift?

75 Ranger 351w,C4, Edelbrock stuff,Carter625,2.5in. James Duff lift,Double shocked,Disc brakes,Uncut
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Old 09/16/18, 09:58 PM   #4
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Thank you both for the detailed explanation and help.
Mike, no I actually did the lift and then recently did the bushings.

The only other variable that I neglected to mention is that like many others, the back sits an inch or better higher than the front, so I'm trying to decide whether or not to remove a couple of leafs or change the fronts to 4 1/2" lift coils, but I am hoping either change won't affect my numbers negatively.

Thanks again
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Old 09/17/18, 12:33 AM   #5
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Before changing coils or removing leaves, find out where you sit right now.
Since the lift is relatively new, perhaps the springs are sitting a bit high still. Coils are usually more consistent than the leaves are on our Broncos, but that doesn't mean you should have to put up with too big of a stink-bug effect.

Measure between the top of your rear axle tube and the bottom of the frame rail and see what you get. You are looking for approx. 9-10 inches. If you have more, then your springs need to settle some more, or you will be removing a leaf or two to get it there quicker. Are you light in the rear? Full hard top? Big bumper and tire carrier? Stuff like that?

Paul

'71 Wagon, 3.5" WH, F150 disc brakes and steering, 4.11 33x11.50 Thornbirds, Kayline soft top, Hanson bumpers. "Built, not bought"

'68 LUBR, 2.5 + 1 WH, 31x10.50, 4.56, Explorer and 4R70w by EFI Guy, WH disc brakes, Hanson front bumper, Warn winch. "Bought, not built"

www.wildhorses4x4.com
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Old 09/17/18, 10:06 PM   #6
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Light in the rear. Soft top, aftermarket steel bumper but nothing big, no tire carrier.

I'm at 10.5" in front and 10.5-11" in back. Definitely stink bug stance.

You're suggesting pulling the leaves rather than go to 4.5" coils? I was leaning towards the coils based on the looks on the rear wheel well gap.
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Old 09/18/18, 12:32 AM   #7
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Nope, just giving options. One way isn't necessarily always better than the other. Just what you prefer.
Adding coils is easier, and if you like the higher look to match the rear that you already like, it's a good way to do it and only costs a little money.
You do potentially run into some issues that can arise when going taller overall. Which could include more bump-steer, or not enough caster, or perhaps even a u-joint binding in the front when going off road. Since most don't go off-roading anymore anyway, that last may be a non-issue. And not all run into it anyway.

Removing a leaf or two is free, but more work. Could be more appropriate though, for those that don't want to go any higher, don't mind losing a little carrying capacity in favor of a slightly softer ride, or who just don't want to spend any more money on their rig!

So each has their pros and cons. Sounds like the pro column leans towards new coils for you at least for now.

Paul

'71 Wagon, 3.5" WH, F150 disc brakes and steering, 4.11 33x11.50 Thornbirds, Kayline soft top, Hanson bumpers. "Built, not bought"

'68 LUBR, 2.5 + 1 WH, 31x10.50, 4.56, Explorer and 4R70w by EFI Guy, WH disc brakes, Hanson front bumper, Warn winch. "Bought, not built"

www.wildhorses4x4.com
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Old 09/18/18, 11:03 PM   #8
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Paul, I have been listening, "each one is different", but any swag on how much caster I may loose by going up an inch? As you can see I'm at 3.4 and 3.7 degree now, which Im reading is pretty good for this set up, but if I go up a bit will I give it all away?
Thanks for the help.
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Old 09/19/18, 05:28 AM   #9
1strodeo
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Forgive me if it's been mentioned, but how does it DRIVE? That's the most important thing...any pics from the side to illustrate front/rear height difference?

I've been dialing in my alignment for a while now, each adjustment makes it a little or a lot better, but still not perfect...well i know it may never be perfect, and at least i can go down the road with ONE hand on the wheel now

1966 LUBR, 170 3spd, 2.5" SL, 1" BL, 31's Tonko

1972 U15, 302 3spd, 3.5" SL, 1" BL, 35's Frankie
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Old 09/19/18, 07:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B RON CO View Post
Hi, your camber is just a little bit in. But it is very hard to adjust. This means the top of the tires are tipped in towards the inside.
The report shows positive camber in the front not negative. Positive camber means the tops of the tires are pointing out, which is as it should be.

To the OP, your camber numbers look great. That is the area most people shoot for these days with radial tires. Your caster numbers are great as well.

The reason people quote settings such as toe in inches instead of degrees is that it is affected by tire size. If you set a pair of stock diameter tires at 0.15 degrees and a set of 35's at 0.15 degrees they will measure different toe readings tire center to center as the larger diameter of the tire increases the radius which causes a wider toe reading. Both sets of tires should be set around 3/8" for the best handling. So, the degree setting is different for the two sets of tires whereas the final measurement tire center to center should be the same.

'73 in progress. 302, 3 On the Floor, Stock HD Suspension, 31's, 4.11:1
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Old 09/19/18, 08:52 AM   #11
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...from an OLD Chiltons book
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1966 LUBR, 170 3spd, 2.5" SL, 1" BL, 31's Tonko

1972 U15, 302 3spd, 3.5" SL, 1" BL, 35's Frankie
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Old 09/19/18, 04:31 PM   #12
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[QUOTE=PDQ;3128689]...but any swag on how much caster I may loose by going up an inch?

Generally, I think you lose just a tad more than a degree per inch of lift in the front. Been awhile since we talked about that, but I think that's what I remember.
We can test it of course, or if anyone here has ever measured their caster, then lifted the Bronco and checked it again, it would be great to hear what your results were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PDQ View Post
As you can see I'm at 3.4 and 3.7 degree now, which Im reading is pretty good for this set up, but if I go up a bit will I give it all away?
Not all of it. But certainly at least a degree.
In which case you'd still be "decent" but as was asked, how does it drive now?
The reason I ask that is that most members here discuss their Broncos not handling all that great at all with less then 3 degrees, while mine handles pretty darn good (for an off-road utility vehicle that is) at just barely 2.5 degrees caster.
Here again is your "each one is different" mantra in action. But that at least points out to me that you're getting into the gray zone if you lose more degrees.
The other aspect to going up another inch with 7 degree bushings is that your front driveshaft u-joint could be near binding. For a street rig this is not much of an issue, and with your already good caster numbers, I'd say your rig came with good numbers from the factory (unlike most of ours) and may also not have a big pinion problem.

But don't forget that all caster numbers are fixable in the "correct" way rather than with C-bushings alone.
So don't let caster alone be your deciding factor on the extra lift. If that's really the way you prefer, and doing so hurts how your Bronco steers and feels on the street, you will still have the cut-n-turn method of caster correction left to you.
You've probably read about that here too, but it's where you go back down to a 2 degree c-bushing to keep your pinion angle in good shape, and grind down the big weld on the steering yokes (where the ball-joints attach the knuckles to the axle tube) and then rotate them to obtain the proper/desired caster angle.
Re-weld and then you have the best of both worlds.

So there is that, if you're just not sure which way you want to go due only to caster concerns.

Paul

'71 Wagon, 3.5" WH, F150 disc brakes and steering, 4.11 33x11.50 Thornbirds, Kayline soft top, Hanson bumpers. "Built, not bought"

'68 LUBR, 2.5 + 1 WH, 31x10.50, 4.56, Explorer and 4R70w by EFI Guy, WH disc brakes, Hanson front bumper, Warn winch. "Bought, not built"

www.wildhorses4x4.com
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Old 09/20/18, 10:13 PM   #13
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Thanks to all for some great info.

It drives really well now, so I'm leery to change the geometry any more. The lift went on with existing 4 degree bushings (power steering) and it was very twitchy, but switching to the 7's made it run as I would think it should. No bump steer, tracks well, feels solid.

I guess I'll just have to see what happens if I lose a degree or so.....
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