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Old 09/05/11, 08:31 AM   #1
LSUpete
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PS Pump - Serpentine Pulley alignment

Trying to finish up a 4-year project....and hoping to get some work done on Labor Day.

I have a 351w and I'm installing a serpentine pulley system that I got from Chcuk. The kit came with some extremely vague instructions, but I'm trying to work throught that. I have multiple issues, and questions, but the most important is the pulley alignment. I've installed the pulley onto my Saginaw pump, but as you can see, the angle of the PS pulley isn't the same as the angle on the crank shaft pulley.

How can I massage-straighten-fix this?
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File Type: jpg 000_0535.jpg (63.2 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg 000_0534.jpg (76.5 KB, 68 views)

'76 Sport, Frame-off Restoration, modified '69 351w with Edlebrock intake and quadrajet carb, 2 1/2" lift, Hydratech hyroboost, Painless Harness with multiple adds, 33's on 15x8 wheels. http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88493
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Old 09/05/11, 09:19 AM   #2
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The crank pulley looks to be facing downward. Is the center of the pulley bent? Not to sound alarming, but I wonder if the harmonic balancer might not be installed all the way (correctly) ?

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.69 U14.
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Old 09/05/11, 11:49 AM   #3
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I don't think the crank is facing downward. The PS pump bracket is noticeably off.

'76 Sport, Frame-off Restoration, modified '69 351w with Edlebrock intake and quadrajet carb, 2 1/2" lift, Hydratech hyroboost, Painless Harness with multiple adds, 33's on 15x8 wheels. http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88493
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Old 09/05/11, 05:36 PM   #4
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Hmm...... these old eyes haven't been the same since I got bi-focals!
aside from returning the bracket, you could shim it out from the top using washers or bend it in a vise with a good sized crescent wrench

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Old 09/05/11, 10:30 PM   #5
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How about calling Chuck tomorrow am?

Strrroker powered... 418 cubes in a roller block, 518 HP... Trick Flow, Mahle, etc... this brings a whole new meaning to the term "burping the throttle". Still 24+ forward gears...
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Old 09/06/11, 09:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvrstuk View Post
How about calling Chuck tomorrow am?
Wow.....wish I had thought of that.

'76 Sport, Frame-off Restoration, modified '69 351w with Edlebrock intake and quadrajet carb, 2 1/2" lift, Hydratech hyroboost, Painless Harness with multiple adds, 33's on 15x8 wheels. http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88493
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Old 09/06/11, 09:19 PM   #7
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20 gears forward...no reverse!

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What'd he say?

Strrroker powered... 418 cubes in a roller block, 518 HP... Trick Flow, Mahle, etc... this brings a whole new meaning to the term "burping the throttle". Still 24+ forward gears...
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Old 09/06/11, 10:34 PM   #8
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I have the 5.0 bracket from WH, and I had to add some washers w/ the provided spacers to line everthing up. Kinda a pain in the a$$
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Old 09/07/11, 12:08 AM   #9
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Something else looks amiss too Pete. I don't know Chuck's system, but the pulley on the pump looks to be not on all the way. Is it possible to put it on backwards? If so, the offset is holding it out. If not, will it go on any farther?
Yes, the angle looks off too, but I'm thinking that it's both an angle issue, AND a depth issue.

Just from here anyway. Good luck.

Paul

'71 Wagon, 3.5" lift, F150 disc brakes and steering, 4.11 33x11.50 Thornbirds, Kayline soft top, Hanson bumpers.
Soon to be 5.0 w/ NV3550 and NP241 and whatever other parts are stuffed in the cab, storage room and garage, waiting to be installed.

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Old 09/07/11, 05:31 AM   #10
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I've sent photos to Chuck and we're emailing back and forth. He's surprised about that pump pulley angle.

I put the pulley on crrectly, with the flange/offset toward the grill. I tightened that thing about as much as I could, without REALLY hunkering down on it. And, the pump shaft is flush with the edge of the pulley housing.....and that is the way I was always taught. There is about 1/2" of the pump shaft exposed between the back of the pulley and the face of the pump. Did I do something wrong?

Check out the attached photo.
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File Type: jpg PS Pump Install 02.jpg (93.0 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg PS Pump Install 03.jpg (79.2 KB, 31 views)

'76 Sport, Frame-off Restoration, modified '69 351w with Edlebrock intake and quadrajet carb, 2 1/2" lift, Hydratech hyroboost, Painless Harness with multiple adds, 33's on 15x8 wheels. http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88493
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Old 09/11/11, 10:40 AM   #11
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Here's a good view of the PS pump bracket. There is no way to resolve this with shims or spacers. The bracket is bent and will have to be beaten into shape, or replaced.
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File Type: jpg IMG02521-20110911-1213.jpg (88.2 KB, 25 views)

'76 Sport, Frame-off Restoration, modified '69 351w with Edlebrock intake and quadrajet carb, 2 1/2" lift, Hydratech hyroboost, Painless Harness with multiple adds, 33's on 15x8 wheels. http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88493
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Old 09/11/11, 10:42 AM   #12
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Another monster problem with this system of brackets is that it puts the alternator and the tensioning pulley through the hood.

Does anyone know of a better alternator bracket to use with a serpentine system?
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File Type: jpg IMG02518-20110911-1213.jpg (81.7 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg IMG02519-20110911-1213.jpg (91.1 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg IMG02520-20110911-1213.jpg (97.1 KB, 30 views)

'76 Sport, Frame-off Restoration, modified '69 351w with Edlebrock intake and quadrajet carb, 2 1/2" lift, Hydratech hyroboost, Painless Harness with multiple adds, 33's on 15x8 wheels. http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88493
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Old 09/11/11, 11:22 AM   #13
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The system is from a 89 mustang. If your hood hits it is the only one I have come across that would. I do not know why yours would or why your PS does not set right, I sent the 2 spacers that should be installed between the pump and bracket. If that does not fix the Pump alignment or if you are tired of messing with it send it back. I am sorry it doesn't fit for you and I can't see why from the pictures what is diff. Was the pump bracket bent when you received it? They are my design but I do not make them, we have them made by the 100 then powdercoated so I guess they could have been bent in shipping but they were made to be flat. As I told you we are out of stock right now.
Also, the hood raises up in the center.

Last edited by chuck; 09/11/11 at 11:38 AM..

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Old 09/11/11, 02:08 PM   #14
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I know this is off-the-wall Pete, but your motor looks tilted up farther than normal. Maybe it's just the height of the brackets throwing my perspective off, and I don't have one in mine right now to go out and compare to, but it all looks tilted farther than I remember.
Is that possible in your case? If other things have changed, maybe someone here could compare theirs to yours, say the valve cover angle to the fender, maybe that would tell the tale.

See? I said it was off-the-wall and a long-shot. Unless you put some odd type of trans and mount in there and it's too low, or there are some uber-tall engine mounts in it, I don't see what else would cause that (other than my crossed-eyes that is!).
Unless you don't have a trans in it at all yet? That would be too much to hope for, I'm sure, but it's worth a mention.

And back to the pump, obviously there's no way to get the pulley on wrong-way-round, so is it possible that there are pulleys with different offsets? This pulley came with the kit I presume, but maybe someone here with an '89 Mustang setup can compare.
You're correct about them (usually) being seated to the end of the shaft, but they usually don't have that much of a gap between the pump body and back of the pulley either. They can be pushed a bit past the end of the shaft in some cases (tools allowing), but I don't think there's enough there to be the answer.

With the P/S kits though, you sometimes have to space the pump back off the bracket to fit. There to too many different pumps that people can use (we've run afoul of that here many times!), so there is that to wonder about too. But here again, that's a lot of spacing, so not sure.

Which exact pump are you using, and why is not spacing it back an option? Will the tank hit the engine, or the tank inlets interfere with the fender? Kind'a looks that way from here, but the angle is not good to see that.

We had a bracket go out defective recently (documented here on CB) and had to replace it due to some incorrectly fabbed components.
It wasn't just bent (which is usually easy to fix) but had at least one, if not two, little tiny threaded bosses welded on completely crooked. Unfortunately for our customer, it wasn't caught at the manufacturer and got boxed up and sent out for him to discover when his pump didn't line up.

Not saying that should make you happy about yours, or make it any less of a hassle to deal with. Just that it has happened to us too.

Don't mean to muddy the waters, but I'm throwing out things that look to be possible help. I hope!

Good luck.

Paul

'71 Wagon, 3.5" lift, F150 disc brakes and steering, 4.11 33x11.50 Thornbirds, Kayline soft top, Hanson bumpers.
Soon to be 5.0 w/ NV3550 and NP241 and whatever other parts are stuffed in the cab, storage room and garage, waiting to be installed.

www.wildhorses4x4.com
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Old 09/11/11, 03:04 PM   #15
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Paul et al,

The motor does seem to sit high, but I don't know why that would be. It's a 1969 351w with stock motor mounts. The C4 transmission mounts are brand new from Jeff's (I believe) so I'm not sure how they could cause any unusual height.

The PS pump is a Saginaw unit and it's been modified to coordinate with a hydroboost braking system.

I pulled the pump bracket and it is definitely not flat. It curves a bit and I'll be sending that back to Chuck. Once he sends me the new one, I'll try the spacers and see if I can get it to work.

The alternator bracket just seems so ridiculously big for it's purpose. I would love to find some other bracket that works with this system.....without putting the tensioning pulley into the hood.

I really want this system to work, but if I can't get it to fit under the hood, I'll have two choices:

1. Install a body lift.
2. Go back to the stock V-belt system.

'76 Sport, Frame-off Restoration, modified '69 351w with Edlebrock intake and quadrajet carb, 2 1/2" lift, Hydratech hyroboost, Painless Harness with multiple adds, 33's on 15x8 wheels. http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88493
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