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Old 09/26/05, 11:58 AM   #1
23firefly
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Chico
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Question Found some 4bt cummings

Found some 4bt cummings engines, in is in the Frito lays truck and one is a newer unit being used as a power unit.
I'm trying to figure out if this is the same 4bt as the frito lays van. Why buy the whole van when I just need the engine.

Any imput would be helpful.

http://4-wheelin.com/images/upload/C...ower_unit_.jpg

1969, 351-w,33's, np-435,
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Old 09/26/05, 04:46 PM   #2
73stallion
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what's the weight difference between the 302 and the 4bt?
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Old 09/26/05, 05:23 PM   #3
76Broncofromhell
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It sounds like a good idea, but you have to make sure the bellhousing is the same as the Frito vans. Supposedly (according to my buddy the Cummins guru) the 4BT uses a SB Chevy bolt pattern on the bellhousing making tranny and clutch selection really easy.

'70 Bronco - 408W
'45 Ford GPW - 351W
'84 Toyota - 5.0L HO
'84 FJ-60 - 5.0L HO
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Old 09/26/05, 06:46 PM   #4
Fishmanndotcom
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well if you get the truck or find a truck salvage yard you can get the tranny thats already behind it and they are usually the TH400's

i know of a guy in ECBR that i rode with 2 years back at the FFA in Tenn and he swapped in a 4bt and tranny

-cutts-

72 Bronco-ish 302/NP435/D20/D60/10.25 5.88's welded F/R full hydro, hydroboost, taurus fan, 39"iroks, doved F/R, 39.5" iroks
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Old 09/26/05, 09:12 PM   #5
broncomanbrad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73stallion
what's the weight difference between the 302 and the 4bt?
From what I've read the 4BT is 700 lbs. That isn't 100% correct though.
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Old 09/26/05, 09:15 PM   #6
swa0330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 23firefly
Found some 4bt cummings engines, in is in the Frito lays truck and one is a newer unit being used as a power unit.
I'm trying to figure out if this is the same 4bt as the frito lays van. Why buy the whole van when I just need the engine.

Any imput would be helpful.

http://4-wheelin.com/images/upload/C...ower_unit_.jpg

That engine may work, but because it is a power unit there could be a couple of problems:

1) From the picture I can see that it is a high mount turbo, so you will need a new manifold. It will never fit in a bronco, unless you want to cut a hole in your hood and have the turbo sticking through.

2) Unless it came from a Frito truck, it may have an even lower redline. A lot of the generator 4BT's have a 1800 rpm redline.

76Broncofromhell is right about the Chevy setup. A majority of 4BT's in bread trucks had Chevy trannies (almost always a Turbo 400 or a SM-465). Adapting a 700R4 would be pretty easy, and you could use whatever CHevy transfer case behind that. The expensive part isn't the adapter and bellhousing. If you do a 4BT conversion, you generally always want to buy an engine and tranny combo that can be really flexible. The same goes for the engine accessories. It has been my observation that getting a wrongly configured engine just costs a lot more to change and leads to a lot of frustration. That is why most people doing this swap just look around for a while until they find a Frito truck.

Besides you live out in CA and I am sure that within 20 miles you could find a crackhead to hire to steal a 4BT equipped Frito truck. Just snag the motor and leave the rest laying around on the side of the road. I am sure it wouldn't cost you more then a couple hundred bucks.
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Old 09/26/05, 09:17 PM   #7
swa0330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broncomanbrad
From what I've read the 4BT is 700 lbs. That isn't 100% correct though.
You are pretty much right on the money. The only consolation is that you can mount the motor a little further back and help with the weight distribution.
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Old 09/26/05, 09:32 PM   #8
76Broncofromhell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swa0330
Besides you live out in CA and I am sure that within 20 miles you could find a crackhead to hire to steal a 4BT equipped Frito truck. Just snag the motor and leave the rest laying around on the side of the road. I am sure it wouldn't cost you more then a couple hundred bucks.
In Chico they are Meth heads, not crackheads. Just clearing up some of the confusion.

'70 Bronco - 408W
'45 Ford GPW - 351W
'84 Toyota - 5.0L HO
'84 FJ-60 - 5.0L HO
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Old 09/26/05, 10:45 PM   #9
broncomanbrad
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Anyone know how much a 302 weighs? My brothers didn't seem TOO heavy to me, but I wasn't the only one lifting. I was thinking somewhere near 350-400?
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Old 09/26/05, 11:24 PM   #10
76Broncofromhell
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About 525-550 with accessories.

'70 Bronco - 408W
'45 Ford GPW - 351W
'84 Toyota - 5.0L HO
'84 FJ-60 - 5.0L HO
'13 Shelby GT500 - 5.8L
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Old 09/26/05, 11:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Broncofromhell
In Chico they are Meth heads, not crackheads. Just clearing up some of the confusion.

Paradise being my hometown, I can back this claim...there might be a few more up the hill!!




73 GT40P Injected EB with a ton of Money in it and the tally keeps growing
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Old 09/27/05, 05:32 PM   #12
Jason TN
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From what I have gathered during my information search. The Cummins isnt like other motors we are used to dealing with. Cummins has an adapter plate that comes in a variety of different applications.

The Frito Lay trucks mostly had a chevy adapter going to a turbo400 transmition. Not sure if the chevy nv4500 will bolt to this...Im not a chevy man.

Dodge diesel trucks although a 6cyl (6bt) have the same bolt pattern as its little brother the 4bt and you can use this adapter plate to adapte the dodge nv4500 transmition.

I have also talked to a guy who had a step van with a 4bt cummins bolted to a borg warner T18 4sp Ford.

They also make several other adapter plates or mid-plates for many industrial applications.

As for the fact that is isnt the automotive version, I would agree with Scott in the fact that it prolly isnt going to be set up to trun the RPMs needed without some adjustments.

The turbo being high mount is going to need to be changed as Scott stated.

Can you get a CPL# also it may have the HP/RPM rating on the tag.

All depends on what kind of deal you can get the engine for because you are going to have to make several adjustments and modifactions.

Also on that came from vehicle will already have power stearing pump, which is usually a signaw with dual return, because allot of those had hydro brakes also.

Here is a list of CPL #'s http://www.rebuiltdieselengines.com/cummins4b.html might help you see what configurations these engines come in. Like I said if the deal is good enuff go for it but I just bought a good runner for $2500 that has low mount turbo, rear sump oil pan, and came from a van so it has power stearing. My CPL is 0858

Ill be using the dodge adapter plate, bellhousing, flywheel/clutch assembly and nv4500 transmition from a 1999 dodge 2500 diesel.

My cost list atm is:

Engine = 2500
adapter plate = 50+
Bellhousing/fork = 150
clutch/flywheel = 150+
transmition = 700

ATM im depating on going with an AA adapter for my dana 20 or waiting for the new 4sd atlas to hit market and see how many old ones end up on ebay.

BTW where did you find these engines? Also if anyone has some better prices than what I listed let me know my brother will be doing the same swap soon as I get mine done. All stuff mentioned above is used but in good working order.

I figure the swap will cost around 4000+ I still got to get a slave cylinder and master for it also.

Sua Sponte - if you have to ask you wouldn't understand.
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