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full size axles

supercoupe5

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2002
Messages
294
Loc.
Grand Blanc
how much wider is a full size axle than the ones in the early bronco's. what is involved in doing the swap. are the spring pads and c-bushing mounts the same width (if it comes out of a pre 79 pick-up or bronco). thanks dave

this may be better in the tech so if needed would you please move
 

kb6677

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
2,175
supercoupe5 said:
how much wider is a full size axle than the ones in the early bronco's. what is involved in doing the swap. are the spring pads and c-bushing mounts the same width (if it comes out of a pre 79 pick-up or bronco). thanks dave

this may be better in the tech so if needed would you please move

Can't remember the exact width but will share a couple things that will help. To avoid the coil spring "bowing out" and maintain the cmount location of the lower cup on the full width you can torch off the coil spring top mount from the frame, clean it up and put a 1.5 to 2" spacer behind to set it off the frame some. I have somewhere in between those two on my full width and the coil stands up nicely. IF you maintain the stock length rad. arm the mount needs to go to the outside of the frame instead of underneath for proper line up with the cmounts-stock location and stock length will result in spitting out cbushings-saw this happen on the trail with a friend's rig and it was a pain to reinstall. This would be a great time to install the long arm kits from various vendors. I run the Cage arms and am VERY pleased. The longer arms help maintain proper cbushing life, etc..... A local buddy who likes to work on stuff extended his stock arms(12") and they have held nicely. Some may scream 4 link time-if you have the skills go for it :) We used the "kiss" principle when doing mine 4 years ago and it is still kicking.......
HTH,
 

SaddleUp

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 23, 2004
Messages
9,655
Loc.
Vancouver, WA
I don't recall offhand how much wider they are (Somewhere on the site here there are measurements). It's somewhere in the neighborhood of 6". We put a full width axle under my brothers and left the coil mounts as is. He does have extended arms though. The coils do bow out at the bottom but they have held up for about a year with some fairly extreme wheeling without it being an issue. He plans to redrill the lower cups to move the bottom in an inch or so but so far he hasn't taken the time to do it. Other considerations are the trac rod. (We built a custom raised mount that used the stock EB one) and the drag link. On his he also used a custom steering box he had on the 78 and therefore he was able to just shorten the drag link. (Might be time to consider a TRO setup). Other than this on the rearend it needed the spring perches moved in and custom shock mounts added. (He put an inboard setup on his)

Oh, one other consideration is that the high pinion axle can be an issue with drivelines etc. hitting above. Normally with a 3 1/2" or higher lift I don't think this is a problem.
 

66Gasgrill

Sr. Member
Joined
May 1, 2005
Messages
702
Loc.
Canton, NC
If I remember, I think saddle up is pretty close. Somewhere in the neihborhood of 6". I also left the front mounts as is. My theory is if your springs are straight sitting still, they will be bowed at full articulation. Mine are the opposite Bowed sitting still and straight at full articulation. I personaly haven't had a problem out of them. I have heard stories of coils springs popping out because of this setup. I also have homemade extended radius arms. I welded on new spring perches for the rear (to match the eb springs) along with an inboard shock setup. HTH
 

Apogee

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Bronco Guru
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Nov 26, 2005
Messages
6,033
Off hand, the 76-79 HP Dana44 front axles are 65" wide, WMS to WMS. Just to mention something that hasn't been mentioned, moving your springs outboard will decrease body roll and overall articulation whereas moving them inboard will increase body roll and articulation.

Of course, looking at Saddleup's setup, I think you'd be hard pressed to say he's limited in the articulation department.:eek: Lot's of people running both ways, just depends on what your fab skills are and personal preference. You could always start wide and change it later if you wanted to.
 

bmc69

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Bronco Guru
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Jun 11, 2004
Messages
11,852
To cut a full-width 44s down to be stock width as far as the axles go, you cut exactly 5.125" out of the long side. That's not the same as the WMS difference between the stock EB axle and the full-width axles..but its another 'data point'.
 

ponypower77

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
237
The best years are the 76 77 F150's with disk brakes. The 78 79 have the cast on cmounts opposed to the earlier ones that have the weld on mounts that can be moved if wanted and have stronger axle tubes.
 

Punisher

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Messages
503
What about a 78 or 79 f250 that use leaf spring front ends? you could just cut off the spring perches then weld on C wedges. But if you do that how hard is it to change the lug from the 8 back to the 5?
 

SaddleUp

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 23, 2004
Messages
9,655
Loc.
Vancouver, WA
Punisher said:
What about a 78 or 79 f250 that use leaf spring front ends? you could just cut off the spring perches then weld on C wedges. But if you do that how hard is it to change the lug from the 8 back to the 5?
Changing the lugs pretty much requires changing the knuckles out. The biggest downfall to the F250 frontend is that it's a low pinion instead of high pinion frontend. The 77 frontend that has the weld on c bushing mounts is the most desireable for those that plan to move the mounts. For those that don't plan to move them or plan to just redrill the lower spring cups to move them in some then the high pinion ones up to 79 are fine. I've seen the 78/79 Bronco front housing take one heck of a lot of abuse. I've seen many axles busted in them, a few knuckles busted off them (busted ball joints), the carrier busted a few times, but never a bent or broken housing for one. Oh, I'm sure jumping one you could eventually break or bend it but for most trail use and rock crawling they are plenty strong.
 

SaddleUp

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 23, 2004
Messages
9,655
Loc.
Vancouver, WA
jaydubya said:
Not true. the F250 axles are HP as well
Sorry, I should have said "Most F250 are low pinion". Some 77 1/2 to 79 F250's were high pinion. Not all though as the last 2 78's my brother parted out were both low pinion.
 

68 Broncoholic

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
1,742
Loc.
WA
Are you sure full size front axles are 65" WMS to WMS or are you measuring a rear axle? Last night I measured my HPD60 and it was 70" wide. I wouldn't think Ford would make the D60 wider than a full size D44 but maybe so. My rear D70 is 65" wide and thats standard being narrower in the rear to help with turning radius. With a quick eyeball visual with my buddies Bronco with a fullsize HPD44 looks the same width as mine.

I always found moving the c-wedged in is the easiest way. You can add a angled shim under and on top of the lower coil cup to fix the coil bow problem.
Seems most Broncos need the top coil tower moved 1" forward to be in line with the axle anyway.
 

crawln68

Bronco Guru
Joined
Oct 8, 2004
Messages
3,045
Punisher said:
What about a 78 or 79 f250 that use leaf spring front ends? you could just cut off the spring perches then weld on C wedges. But if you do that how hard is it to change the lug from the 8 back to the 5?


These are great axles to use. The drivers side leaf spring pad is cast into the diff, so you just need to grind a little of it down in order to place the wedges in the proper place. Here's a pic of mine.

Oh yeah, mine is a 78 F-250 axle and it is high pinion. ;)
 

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