engine gurus lets do a little schooling please

pullnpray · Aug 10, 2012

So my intent was high hp but after looking at the d44 and the 38" im gonna run and the 10 spine spud shaft I think im gonna say 350-375 max and then im still kinda worried,

i have a roller 351 out of a van and a zf s5-42 trans out of a 1994 f250.

here is a few questions for the hp im shooting for do i need to get aftermarket heads specially since I want all lower power nothing over 4k,

If I run the gt40 heads should i find a set of gt40, or gt40p i read that the gt40 has bigger valves but the p has a better flow rate(slightly?) I also read there within 5 hp of each other. That being said I don’t really care about horse power I care about low end torque, the p has a slightly lower combustion chamber 58 vs. 60 iirc.

i also read that aftermarket lowers are not as important when your making power low in the power band, as well as uppers(there is gains but usually don’t out weight the cost)

Injectors I was thinking 24lb? I really have no clue on this to be honest most of the info I get is off the mustang forums and there all about drag racing,

i read a dist. out of a 351 efi truck will be fine(suppose to be really good)

And as far throttle body’s what size? is there such thing as to big? Found a really good deal on a trick flow upper and lower but it has a 90mm throttle body on it,

lastly cams I really have no clue on cams its confusing to me i was figuring getting everything I want minus the cam then call up a cam manufacture and telling them this is the combo and this is the power range I want..

That seamed to go on forever hopefully i get schooled as i much need it thanks guys ;D

bmc69 · Aug 10, 2012

I'm confused. 350-375 IS high HP. Very. My 408 peaks at 342HP and has handily broken most everything I've asked it not to. Of course its the torque that is breaking things..but you were wondering about HP.

And I am referring to real verified HP, of course.

Were it me, I would consider any of the Ford iron heads too restrictive and a significant impediment to achieving the HP numbers you threw out there..though you might make it there at a fairly high RPM with the right cam.

My 408 peaks at around 3500 RPM ..a different kind of animal altogether obviously...but I am running 190cc heads with 2.07" intake and 1.65" exahust valves..a LOT more runner and valve than any GT40 head.

73azbronco · Aug 10, 2012

Pick a good low rpm hi torque cam for truck towing or offroad.

Ditch the upper off the intake and find a lightening intake or use the adapter sold on a vendors website.

Find a tuner in town and call and talk, 24lbs should be fine, but you will need to tune.

bmc69 · Aug 10, 2012

73azbronco said:
unless you want to play electircal engineer, stay with a duraspark or other non efi dizzy.

.

I prefer to keep the electronic timing control where I can. Just my .02. I don't have it currently on the 408 engine and it suffers a lot of knock problems accordingly..

73azbronco · Aug 10, 2012

yep, my bad, thinking of something else, keep the efi dizzy for ECM control

pullnpray · Aug 10, 2012

Wow i thought 350ish was fairly easy to get out of a 351 thats not alot compared to the cubes its got, then again its a old push rod motor...

bmc69 · Aug 10, 2012

pullnpray said:
Wow i thought 350ish was fairly easy to get out of a 351 thats not alot compared to the cubes its got, then again its a old push rod motor...

All depends on what you mean by "easy"..and how much money you have to spend.

Think about it...Ford never got that kind of horsepower out of that many cubes even when engines were high compression and performance ruled; the highest they made was the '71 Boss 351C at 330HP.

A current illustration serves us well; here are the specs for a very strong 385HP Ford 351W crate motor with proven performance numbers. Note the long list of $$ mods and goodies, including the heads. Note the rather extreme high RPM at which the HP is being achieved (read: beyond useless for any EB except a street/track queen).

http://www.streetcarforums.com/showthread.php?143485-FS-351w-Ford-Racing-385hp-Crate-Engine-M-6007-A351

Desert Dweller · Aug 10, 2012

I'm confused. 350-375 IS high HP. Very. My 408 peaks at 342HP

My 408 peaks at around 3500 RPM ..a different kind of animal altogether obviously...

couple quotes from BMC69's earlier posts....

I sorta think your engine is actually stronger than that crate engine....-- a 3500 rpm peak as opposed to 5500. No wonder things break when ya hammer it...

What did the torque come in at and what RPM?

I would be afraid to zing a W to 5500 without spending a bunch on the best balance job out there...

And remember what my friend who raced 351W on the circle for years says: "Torque makes horsepower"

Ourobos · Aug 10, 2012

Had a stock 94 351w, edelbrock 2.02 performers, edelbrock rpm
Efi intake and a comp cam (mustang not bronco), made 360 fwhp on the dyno. There u go, custom rv cam and you're set.

Wyflyer · Aug 10, 2012

I have stashed away a 96 5.8 roller cam engine, have gathered 1st gen Lightning heads and lower intake, and have a GT40 upper and an A9L computer.
Any guess what hp and torque it will make?

shamu · Aug 10, 2012

Why do you need so much horse power?

Ourobos · Aug 10, 2012

Wyflyer said:
I have stashed away a 96 5.8 roller cam engine, have gathered 1st gen Lightning heads and lower intake, and have a GT40 upper and an A9L computer.
Any guess what hp and torque it will make?

1st gen lightning were rated at 240hp, so if running through an automatic, about that. I think that at the tire if I'm not mistaken.

bmc69 · Aug 10, 2012

Desert Dweller said:
I sorta think your engine is actually stronger than that crate engine....-- a 3500 rpm peak as opposed to 5500. No wonder things break when ya hammer it... What did the torque come in at and what RPM?
)

Peak HP of 342 was around 3500, falling off quickly after that. Peak torque happened at 2900-2950 and is 496 ft-lbs. Broke through 400 ft-lbs at something estimated around 1400-1500 RPM? (the standard dyno control and data logging software does not start recording untill 2500 RPM..so we had to do some extrapolating..)

I can run many trails just letting the IAC run the truck at idle.

So when I chat with the average horsepower junkie, my 342 peak HP is laughed at. If that junkie happens to be running a trail truck however..I still get the last laugh. Until the next part breaks, that is. %)

broncnaz · Aug 10, 2012

As has been said it usually takes a lot of RPM to break those high HP numbers. In the end I wouldnt worry about how much HP you make you want a engine thats built for your driving needs usually that means a lower RPM type engine for broncos so Hp is just not going to be there. Torque on the other hand can be there and thats what moves you.
My suggestion for your build would be some good aftermarket heads you wont get the power numbers they claim but you will ensure the engine breathes like it should.. IMO theres no stock head thats worth the effort. You may as well stay with the E7's you currently have on that block. As for the cam well if you have a roller cam in the block already I'd stick with it. They are decent cams especailly for lowend and when you shift into OD on the hiway. Cant really speak on the EFI components so I'll leave that to someone else. but for what its worth you should be able to pull the numbers your wanting with stock manifold, throttle body and maf. I wouldnt get to big on those things with just a basic 351 build.

Desert Dweller · Aug 10, 2012

bmc69 said:
Peak HP of 342 was around 3500, falling off quickly after that. Peak torque happened at 2900-2950 and is 496 ft-lbs. Broke through 400 ft-lbs at something estimated around 1400-1500 RPM? (the standard dyno control and data logging software does not start recording untill 2500 RPM..so we had to do some extrapolating..)

I can run many trails just letting the IAC run the truck at idle.

So when I chat with the average horsepower junkie, my 342 peak HP is laughed at. If that junkie happens to be running a trail truck however..I still get the last laugh. Until the next part breaks, that is. %)

Hmmmmm--- all I can say is WHOOAAAA!!!!!! No wonder you break things...

bmc69 · Aug 11, 2012

Desert Dweller said:
Hmmmmm--- all I can say is WHOOAAAA!!!!!! No wonder you break things...

I wouldn't do that again. I have all the parts and pieces here to assemble a 408 for my '78 and I'm not going to go so extreme this time when it comes to trying to create diesel torque with a gasoline engine. Instead I'm targeting something more "balanced", so to speak, with about 350-375HP and around 425 ft-lbs of torque.

Still using the same 190cc big-valve heads, 10.5 CR, etc but a different cam grind and intake setup entirely.

Back to the OP...and to reinforce what 'naz said..those kind of HP and torque numbers won't be possible from a 351W without a good set of heads...along with the right cam choice, induction, etc.

BwoncoHowie · Aug 11, 2012

bmc69 said:
All depends on what you mean by "easy"..and how much money you have to spend.

Think about it...Ford never got that kind of horsepower out of that many cubes even when engines were high compression and performance ruled; the highest they made was the '71 Boss 351C at 330HP....

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Yeah but remember you could put headers, a carb and manifold on that same engine and mill the heads .040" and get well over 360 BHP. I think Ford's test result postings were a little underrated to begin with.

broncnaz · Aug 11, 2012

Yeah but thats a cleveland in stock form it outdid a windsor hands down he3ck even built windsors have a tough time pulling those numbers. plus your also talking about high RPM's the C's have never been known for there lowend. not well suited for a bronco.

bmc69 · Aug 11, 2012

BwoncoHowie said:
Yeah but remember you could put headers, a carb and manifold on that same engine and mill the heads .040" and get well over 360 BHP. I think Ford's test result postings were a little underrated to begin with.

Yeah..tell me something. My Pantera 351C was 345HP in stock form..the headers and exhaust being the only difference.

bmc69 · Aug 11, 2012

broncnaz said:
Yeah but thats a cleveland in stock form it outdid a windsor hands down he3ck even built windsors have a tough time pulling those numbers..

The difference was all in the heads..and similar heads are available for Ws aftermarket and have been for a long time.

The 408 in my EB is a Cleveland..of course....and those silly high torque numbers wre at a pretty low RPM..or some would say so.

engine gurus lets do a little schooling please

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