Chopped, slammed, bagged, tubbed, lowered floors, 418 w/blower, 6r80, 1/2 cab, Bronco Hot Rod

[BruiserOutdoors]

Called Chris at SpeedGems because I want to make this an informative thread not ever ranking on a vendor so here goes.

1- The dowel pins they supply are stock Ford ones that are used on some 6r80's.
Not all 6r's use the same length dowel pins since the engine is used bolted up behind different blocks. Some of the pockets in different 6r80's will accept different length pins.

Once again Ford, in their 90+ yr long pursuit of their ultimate goal of totally disdain for parts interchangeability between models and years of vehicles has sucessfully accomplished that goal !

2- Bolts are different lengths than the packaging states because the bosses that are cast into the bellhousing on the different 6r80's depending on whether it fits in a p/u or Mustang or behind a 3.5 or a 5.0 are all different! Come on Ford!!??

Anyway, I mentioned to Chris that it makes it look like their product isn't designed properly even tho all these are simple 5 minute fixes. Chris said he is going to have the guy that writes the instructions include these variables.

I've talked to him a couple times now. Good guy, knows his stuff but he can't understand why the "newbie grads" of auto tech schools can't figure out anything on their own! lol

I have a bit of a hard time believing his "excuse". but maybe his explanation aligns with what others have noticed with Ford's engineering over the years. Seems like an easy cop-out.

 

[Yeller]

I think in Shorty it will be great. Your not chasing tire clearance I think you could do it and not have to rehang the pedals, just reshape them, assuming hydroboost, you could even change the fulcrum point to 5:1. I’ve had the same thought, 3” in the foot well would be just as effective as 3” in the back of the cab. I have a DD pickup that if I ever dive into the floor board repair that very well may be a reality.

 

[nvrstuk]

The two pics above- my foot is against the sloped floorboard I'm talking about extending.

The second kind of dark pic shows that I can extend the flat floorboard 2" and not run into the frame or have interference with a large diameter tire

 

[ntsqd]

IME GM has done a better job of maintaining a certain level of modularity than Ford has. They're far from perfect either, but their changes tend to be dramatic rather than so incremental that they escape notice until you're faced with one.

Would the proposed floor mod to Shorty be 'Proof of Concept' which will then be applied to the '68 as well? Seems like you could hit a front tire at full stuff, full lock.

 

[Yeller]

just cut that frame out of the way and get the entire 3"

 

[ssray]

when I built new sides for it I made them longer to allow the buckets to have the correct angle for your back when driving w/o being jammed against the steg wheel & more legroom

Not sure what you’re doing for a steering column, I started looking at a junkyard solution earlier and got a bit derailed when I found the pick in pull had no Wranglers. I was having trouble with the flasher on the Rubi and discovered the electrical was all discrete wiring in that column. Only thing tied to the computer is the rf id key system and that doesn’t affect the key electrical wiring, just tied to the computer. It is a “pod” style which might make dash mods necessary, but you’d have lights, turn signals, dimmer and washer/wiper control all on the steering column. A bonus is how easy access is to every thing for repair. No need to take the steering wheel off to work on all of this. I”m back looking at this as I stumbled across a Jeep Liberty column that supposedly cross references with the wranglers. I found there were a number of them listed at the pik and pull so a trip there will let me know. There are still questions with the Liberties that I’ve not resolved but I’m hopeful again. I’ll let you know if it’s at all interesting to you.

 

[nvrstuk]

Interesting #'s in my pic.

Ever since looking at the Speed Gems SBF to 6r80 adapter as an alternative to Performance Autos, I have questioned the potential detrimental affects of that dreaded 13# of weight that the adapter uses to adapt the stock F150 converter to the SBF flexplate.

Well, I'm not as worried anymore.

I asked for accurate weights of the rotating pcs for a manual trans (clutch parts) thanks bmc69 and I am comparing them to the rotating weight of an auto.

Now I understand that we have physics here but to keep things relatively simple I am not going to figure out the difference in where the weight lies in distance from the center between the clutch parts and the converter as mass calculations and "new math" would need to be used and since I had to use slide rules in my engineering classes back at college when Eiaenhower was Pres I am going to let someone else figure that out and we will just go by total rotating weight in lbs...

Stock clutch parts incl flywheel are appr. 52#


Stock SFI rated flexplate, adapter and 6r80 converter can total up to 61#'s plus converter fluid

Stock F150 converter #'s can vary as much as 12#'s compared to aftermarket. So you can lower that rotating weight down to 51#'s which is extremely close to the clutch parts weight.

I am planning on going custom aftermarket torque converter since my vehicle doesn't have many F150 characteristics anymore lol so I'll probably jump up to 2800-3200 rpm stall.

In a nutshell weight can be very comparable between a manual trans clutch setup and an auto with the 13#'s of adapter weight thrown in the mix.
I think with 650 HP for my type of driving it won't affect me much

 

[ntsqd]

Just to ask the stupid question, is it possible to order a converter that plugs into the 6R AND bolts to the SBF flexplate?

 

[nvrstuk]

Yes, totally one off cu$tom.

I was planning on calling tomorrow to ask how much. I was gone all day today. I don't know my total weight, HP and cam specs or whether I'm going boost for sure so I can't spec it out but they can give me a general idea.

 

[nvrstuk]

Scott- strg columns... no idea. Whatever I get I'm adapting to an EPS unit. I have the type of EPS unit narrowed down, just don't have it and I want a custom looking wheel/column combo.

Can that Jeep colum setup look cool or is it all stock looking? Having all the controls on the column would be slick but ...

 

[ssray]

Scott- strg columns... no idea. Whatever I get I'm adapting to an EPS unit. I have the type of EPS unit narrowed down, just don't have it and I want a custom looking wheel/column combo.

Can that Jeep colum setup look cool or is it all stock looking? Having all the controls on the column would be slick but ...

An EPS could put a damper on it. I know of some made for cars like the early Mustangs (my Aunt has a 66), but I don’t know if or how they implement or affect a tilt system. The Rubi column is quite different from the older GM or Fords that hinged out in front of the dash. It pivots down closer to the firewall and the whole column moves via a couple slots and lock closer to the dash. I don’t believe it tilts as far as the older style. Some of what I’ve read in the service manual suggests to me that might be by design because of the airbag. They may limit the angles for safety reasons. As far as bling the Liberty wheel looks a bit more stylish than the Wrangler series. Custom wheels may be sketchy. The stock wheels use a clock spring behind the wheel for the electrical connections to the horn, airbag and cruise controls. That has likely killed the aftermarket along with dealing with an airbag. The airbag would also have to go so something custom made (with a Bronco logo of course) would be needed. I suppose a custom leather wrap and matching insert could be done? Other than that I don‘t know. My primary interest was in the electrical interface and how well it could work with the old.

 

[nvrstuk]

Pics help. Thanks

I know of one or two EPS units that have tilt that "might" fit. Gets tight but w/o a clutch pedal helps.

 

[ntsqd]

Abolish all TLA's!!
Took me a bit to figger out what "EPS" meant.
Guy on the Race-Chase team put one on his Sami dinghy that fits in the intermediate shaft - column is unaffected. No idea what the original application is (is that an "app"?), but I could ask.

 

[BruiserOutdoors]

Interesting #'s in my pic.

Ever since looking at the Speed Gems SBF to 6r80 adapter as an alternative to Performance Autos, I have questioned the potential detrimental affects of that dreaded 13# of weight that the adapter uses to adapt the stock F150 converter to the SBF flexplate.

Well, I'm not as worried anymore.

I asked for accurate weights of the rotating pcs for a manual trans (clutch parts) thanks bmc69 and I am comparing them to the rotating weight of an auto.

Now I understand that we have physics here but to keep things relatively simple I am not going to figure out the difference in where the weight lies in distance from the center between the clutch parts and the converter as mass calculations and "new math" would need to be used and since I had to use slide rules in my engineering classes back at college when Eiaenhower was Pres I am going to let someone else figure that out and we will just go by total rotating weight in lbs...

Stock clutch parts incl flywheel are appr. 52#


Stock SFI rated flexplate, adapter and 6r80 converter can total up to 61#'s plus converter fluid

Stock F150 converter #'s can vary as much as 12#'s compared to aftermarket. So you can lower that rotating weight down to 51#'s which is extremely close to the clutch parts weight.

I am planning on going custom aftermarket torque converter since my vehicle doesn't have many F150 characteristics anymore lol so I'll probably jump up to 2800-3200 rpm stall.

In a nutshell weight can be very comparable between a manual trans clutch setup and an auto with the 13#'s of adapter weight thrown in the mix.
I think with 650 HP for my type of driving it won't affect me much

Thanks for the update with the results. Good to hear.

Were you saying the stock converter is lighter than aftermarket?

 

[nvrstuk]

My stock 6r80 converter is a pig!! 11 3/4" dia and it weighs 43#'s.

My billet converter I had built for my 4r weighed less.

 

[nvrstuk]

TS- the best EPS units (lol) for several reasons are Yoda or Kia. Some models are tilt and that starts creating underdash fitment issues. I have a tilt column in mine now I moved it once when I climbed in the first time and not once since-typical. So that's not a make or break for me and preliminary angle measurements seem to lean towards decent angles for strg ujoints with my R&P and firewall so I probably can use a typical non tilt column and have a comfortable strg wheel placement. Header fitment not so much

 

[ssray]

Sounds like you’ve researched for an EPS. Someone on here had a car with one and discovered they were trouble prone and expensive to fix when they went out so you do need to be careful what you get!

 

[BruiserOutdoors]

My stock 6r80 converter is a pig!! 11 3/4" dia and it weighs 43#'s.

My billet converter I had built for my 4r weighed less.

PIG is an understatement.

 

[nvrstuk]

Anniversary so I'm done early today.

It's setting at the appr 2.6 deg slope I want -which I pulled out of thin air. lol

I'll see if the rear end at ride height likes that # and then come up with another temporary mount but for the rear of the trans until I determine exact valve cover placement to the firewall.

I was close on measurements - the bottom of the trans pan is about 1/4" above the bottom of the frame at this angle.

It's interesting how the length of the 6r is as long as the original RAT 3spd plus 6" adapter and D20.

Gotta remember tho that the 6r80 is the same length (taller and thicker tho) as 4r70, so don't think you can't fit one in your Bronco. I already have and it's a great tranny.

Trans mock up here.

I need to have it's permanent location figured out but I have to try setting the body on to determine that. Body won't fit w/o cutting the floor essentially in half from the firewall to the rear of the cab. I'm concerned about it folding in half when picking it up several times for cutting & fitment.

Oh well. Weld in some pcs of angle across the floor (4" above the floor) for support I reckon.

 

[36Fan]

Just to ask the stupid question, is it possible to order a converter that plugs into the 6R AND bolts to the SBF flexplate?

Yes. I am in the process of getting measurements and specs for the converter shop to build one. Will have proper setback spacing, wider pads and correct pilot length.