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Chopped, slammed, bagged, tubbed, lowered floors, 418 w/blower, 6r80, 1/2 cab, Bronco Hot Rod

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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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The potential issue is the 7/8" from the upper mount bolt hole to the DS flange when using 3 individual bushings (I'm going to try to squeeze it in).

Sure appreciate all the ideas & help from you and Steve.
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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Well, I've walked past it a bunch the past week... busy working on a different project that popped up... details later but...
 

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73azbronco

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Back to spec'ing out the Ford Model A rear suspension in this thread... lol

First, is this enough support for anchoring the rear frame section to the frt frame section?

I have the 1/8" corner gussets lightly tacked and can easily be removed in case you all believe I should weld in a circled pc on the inside of the frame like I did the outside already.
As an Aeronautical engineer and part time EB builder, no. I cannot stress how bad that design is as a structural member, relying on welds to hold structure. You really needed gussets along sides and tops that are held in place by welds, but then allow the metal gusset to support weight, not welds. Essentially you need to box in that entire section, which will make it much larger and why you just don't see that being done. Might I recommend just making the entire frame wider? Jay Leno used a custom $50,000 frame to support his huge motor, and really only works because he then uses 4 link and coil overs in place of springs. Check his build out.
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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Every aftermarket rear subsection relies on butt welding their subsection to your existing frame.

Not saying it's the best way, just works safely for thousands of street rods and go fast cars so I stepped up from that & welded in full corner braces- not just the short gussets I think you are commenting about???


Am I understanding that you are saying that you can't rely on the weld to hold something, that it should have metal underneath each joint? I am being serious. Is this only in the aerospace industry? I work on John Deere tractors alot...not flying machines. lol

If I had Jay Leno's money I would have had Art Morrison bend my frame rails :) but I still would have needed to weld on a wider subsection for the gas tank as there would not have been room for soft bends and I would not have been able to use the wider "Jay Leno" frame rails up frt for my frt suspension-literally no room at all. He is 4wd and I am not. I was very limited with the stock Bronco frame rail width so I could not have used anything wider-no chance at all.

I'm not sure I understand why welds won't hold with what I ended up doing.

Almost all new custom chassis with crossmembers rely on butt welds. All bracketry for supporting beams on large wood structures also almost solely rely on welds.

My structural engineer confirmed my splicing of new 65ft I beams for my bridge over our creek relies on butt welds and were approved for 100% of structural load of the original beam loading, even tho they will be extended and spliced by welding and don't have metal underneath or above the weld, this is why I am having difficulty with your explanation.


Just asking...
 

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73azbronco

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All good man, if you have the welds speced to hold, all is good/great. I'm just not used to seeing welds hold end butt splices, but going over all 35 plus pages again, I really cant complain, go for it!
 
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nvrstuk

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Thanks. I did not want to &@*×> anybody off :) as I'm always open to ideas. Sometimes I can't implement them due to whatever but I sure appreciate all the ideas and input!

Such a huge talent pool here and a great considerate group- always has been.

Thanks!
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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Actually spent some time working on Shorty. Did some fiddling and then with my wife and daughter we swung the body over the chassis to see what I get to work on next. :)
 

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nvrstuk

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Didn't have to look far! :)

The frt body mts have 3" of clearance before contact so I have some trimming to do. The rear body mounts are touching.

The bottom pic is the back of the intake manifold and the tunnel. The light spot is from the small "where do I start cutting" hole. Now I have some trimming to do.
 

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nvrstuk

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Did a bunch of cutting. Most of the floor is out. Wish I'd received the rest of my torque arm parts so I could have finished it up. Then I could have put the tires on and checked ride height. I have spacers simulating front suspension height and since I can move the upper bag brackets up or down as needed I could pretty much dial it in but... after the floor is "done", curiousity will prevail I'm sure! :)

Have very temporary body mounts front and back. C clamps holding the body to the chassis.
 

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nvrstuk

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A couple more.

Have to expose the frt crossmember by drilling out all the spot welds
 

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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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I'm not going for a show car look. This will be a driver but the boooooger welds are everywhere. :)

I cut off more sheet metal today than I was going too since it will be easier to put new panels in than clean the previous owners welds up. I could leave it if I sprayed enough Linex, Dynomat, then carpet. It's not much more work and it'll drive me nuts so.

Just talking out loud here-
Going to move the throttle over an inch or so and I usually move the brake pedal over 4-6" to the DS depending on the builds needs. I want valve cover clearance and a clean look. Since I'm moving the firewall (the angled part under the pedals) forward appr 2" I need to change the angles and pivot points.

I will probably use 3/4" x 3" rect tube for body support cross pcs (under the floor & tunnel) and other than losing a little clearance I might use 3/4" or 1" tube bent in a half circle to form the tunnel and the round tubing would of course be welded to the rect tube.

Is this overkill? Maybe 1/2" sq tube or even recess cuts, then bend the tubing to form the radius instead? My concern is I have to pick this tub up a couple more times...

The body floor pan sheetmetal will be spotwelded to the tubing like normal. Since the shaped tubing would be welded to the 3/4" x 3 rect tube cross braces that would span the width of the floor, the strength would be there, I just don't want to increase the size of the tunnel hump too much. Gotta do whatcha gotta do tho huh! :)

I don't have the cool tools to form sheetmetal like the stock stiffeners in the first pic in post #691 above so trying to be creative. I've used 3/4 x 3" rect tube on other builds but I wasn't going for a round tunnel shape so a recess cut here or there for a 30 or 45deg angle was easy.

Question- Is there any stronger space saving way to make a support for the tunnel and have it be strong enough to be a body crossmember and be able to use it to lift the body?
 
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Yeller

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You’re putting a cage in it right? If you are, do chassis structure for the cage, tie the cowl to the cage, then you do not need that body crossmember, it’s there to support the body mount and the cowl. Then you just need enough suport for the seats, which isn't much. bead rolling in the floor will keep it from oil canning.
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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Glad you've done this before and willing to chime in (again) !! :)

This means I get to rake my windshield and chop my half cab down sooner than expected. :)

I'm going with AC so I need to see where the best place to tie the cage in to the cowl on the passenger side would be without interfereing with the AC vents and where to tie it in to the new floor & crossmembers.

Might be jumping ahead here but I would like to isolate the cage from the chassis as much as possible so I wasn't going to tie the cage directly to it. Safety is important but my autocross outings will be extremely limited (maybe a few weekends of fun as brakes will be a major limitation) and since I will be at least 5 seconds short (maybe more) of any NHRA requirements for full cages, I'm putting it in for safety and 3 point attachment.

Got a local buddy who will bead roll and bend my panels. I will take him cardboard pcs with 29ga roofing pcs bent to the angles I want them at. I haven't figured out how to dimple die the 2 body mounts for under the front feet- need to ask him if he can do that.
 
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ntsqd

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I've found that I can usually 'pull' a flat sheet enough to keep it from oil-canning by turning the MIG way up and the wire speed way down. Run two "beads" in an 'X' across the underside of the panel at high speed. You're not after an actual bead, just two lines of heat-shrunk metal. It's not pretty, but it's quick.

For floor support I'd find a local shop with a press-brake and have them make some blank hat sections from 10-12 ga. sheet that you can cut into the needed lengths & skip-weld to the floor panels.

Lower cage structure built into the tub is a good idea. A friend did exactly that with his flat fender project. His plan is to then attach the body mounts to the lower cage structure. Urethane shackle bushings were the planed body mount bushings. An idea flirted with was to build rock sliders welded to the frame and the support tubes would have the body mounts built into them. The cage itself was to be a welded structure, but would bolt to the body.

Can buy trans tunnel kits in steel, might be easier than fabricating from scratch.
https://www.cachassisworks.com/p-458-transmission-tunnel-steel.aspx
https://www.chassisengineering.com/product/c-e8021-024-steel-transmission-tunnel-kit/
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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How you find this stuff amazes me!! :)

Probably has something to do with background & work! :)

I was soooo "out of this field" my last 26 yrs of daily work! lol

Thanks
 
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ntsqd

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Knowing it exists or used to is the first step. In this case it doesn't hurt that I helped a friend install an aluminum version the Chassis Works tunnel in his drag race Monza back when we were both not long out of HS.

If you really throw me a curve I'll call in the big gun. I've friend who can find anything, I mean anything, you want on the net. It was he who found the F-100 HP D44 w/ GM 8 lug outers and D60 combo that has become the basis of my 8 lug TTB conversion for the Blanc-Oh. Took him less than a day to find that locally. Mentioned that I was thinking about adding a Gear Vendors OD to the Cummins-Dodge and 4 weeks later he turns up a killer deal on one almost 8 miles from me. Of course it was set-up for an NP271 and our truck was an NP241. Switching adapters cost almost as much as swapping to the bigger t/c. Never pass up an opportunity to upgrade, right? Now we have compound OD in that truck and that combined with the 55 gal main makes long slab runs much, much easier.
 

Yeller

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Nice resource TS.

By cage structure I should elaborate that a spring eye bushing or typical rubber donut body mount, and incorporate the cage into body structure and the cage provide the body suport rather than the body supporting the cage.
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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I remember back in the day the countless posts/discussions on sandwiching the floor body between rubber bushings and the cage coming down to the floor, then bushings, then cage tie in to the frame.

That ok here?

This would make it easier for sure, not really looking to cut corners but this way I might be able to come off the frame rail allowing room somewhere for my muffler, up to the floor, sandwich it then up to the cage.

Otherwise are there any pics showing typical ways to orient it they way you mentioned? thx
 

ntsqd

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I used to maintain a whole library of catalogs from all sorts of vehicle parts vendors or places that had parts that could be used on vehicles and had a bit of an index in my head. Then the internet came along......

If I were going to sandwich the body between cage bits I would put rubber mounts on the bottom doubler plates or cage structure in the body and not bother with the OE body mounts. "Float" the body directly off the cage, don't make the cage mounts and the body mounts compete with each other.

I'm going to be making SolidWorks illustrations tomorrow, aren't I? :)
 
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