Removing welded windshield

[Torkman66]

Decided to tackle the windshield frame today. Watched a few online videos of guys doing it and they made it look like a huge pain. I had the windshield frame off with little to no issue in less than an hour. Thought I'd share what I did and tools I used.

1. Lower the windshield forward. Use a blanket if glass still in frame.
2. Using a grinder with a wire wheel disc (4 or 5" diameter) clean off all of the paint and rust in order to clearly see all of the little round spot welds.
3. Use a centering punch (this one works fantastic...you'll never drill a hole again without using this inexpensive tool to set a center punch) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KGF7ZFQ/?tag=cbama-20) carefully set a punch in the center of each weld. (I had about 25-30 total welds). Took minutes.
4. Use this tool to drill out the spot welds https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087FS9PR8/?tag=cbama-20 This thing is an amazing tool. Carefully center the pin into the punch and slowly drill through the top layer of the hinge. Its easy to drill too far and into the dash frame. I just looked for the smoke of rust dust to start coming up and then I knew I was through the hinge. It was pretty rusty between the hinge and the dash frame its welded to) I drilled out all welds in 15 minutes. Never had to change the bit (24 come in with the tool)...only used one and its still sharp.
5. I used a long wide flat blade screw driver and started at one side hammering the screwdriver in between the hinge and the dash frame it is welded to. The hinge separated at every weld with zero issue. Never even had to go back and redrill any. Had the windshield off in 5 more minutes.
6. Uses a grinder to go over dash channel where the welds remained and flatten them...10 minutes.
7. Changed grinder to a cup wire wheel and cleaned up dash frame to shinny metal.
8. Laid the frame on the shop concrete floor so the hinge sat flush on the floor and used a body hammer to flatten out the hinge where it had a few bends from the removal process. Looks good as new.

That was it. Very easy job using these tools. I estimate you could do all of the metal body repair on a Bronco plus some and not use all of the drill teeth attachments. They stayed sharp a long time. I'll use nutserts and flat head SS screws instead of welds to reattach the frame once its ready to go back on.

 

[trailerjack]

I just did the same thing. Using rivnuts to attach the frame back and some 1966 OEM windshield frame bolts I had laying around!

 

[Torkman66]

trailjack, any issue with the thickness of the rivnut thickness that sits on top side and then the thickness of the frame bolts in keeping the windshield from folding fully closed? What size/thread are those bolts and how thick is the head?

 

[trailerjack]

trailjack, any issue with the thickness of the rivnut thickness that sits on top side and then the thickness of the frame bolts in keeping the windshield from folding fully closed? What size/thread are those bolts and how thick is the head?

I will get you some pictures next time I am out there. No issues that I can tell so far, The windshield frame is back off and when re-installed. I can't remember the bolt size, will have to look I pulled them out of a 66 windshield channel.

 

[jamesroney]

trailjack, any issue with the thickness of the rivnut thickness that sits on top side and then the thickness of the frame bolts in keeping the windshield from folding fully closed? What size/thread are those bolts and how thick is the head?

The Typical Rivnuts will sit proud of the surface, and this will prevent the hinge from seating on the tub. This can be mitigated by boring the hinge oversized to fit over the shoulder, but if you do that...then you will need oversized heads or washers to cover the hole. They do sell flush rivnuts, but I've never had any luck keeping those from spinning in the holes.

The original bolts for the 66-69 windshield were 1/4-20 x 3/4. They were 7/16 low profile hex head. I think .090 but I can measure one for you if I take it out. The factory hinge has a corresponding hole (about 5/8 ID) on the windshield leaf that mates over the head of the bolt. The weatherstrip sandwiches between the hinge leafs and gets squished between the hex head and the hole.

The new 69-77 windshield frames do not have the correct 66-69 hinge, and if it's already welded to the frame...it will be a challenge to make the holes.

I have a really nice 66 hinge that I was saving from a damaged frame. If you need dimensions or pics, I can get them for you.

 

[trailerjack]

The Typical Rivnuts will sit proud of the surface, and this will prevent the hinge from seating on the tub. This can be mitigated by boring the hinge oversized to fit over the shoulder, but if you do that...then you will need oversized heads or washers to cover the hole. They do sell flush rivnuts, but I've never had any luck keeping those from spinning in the holes.

The original bolts for the 66-69 windshield were 1/4-20 x 3/4. They were 7/16 low profile hex head. I think .090 but I can measure one for you if I take it out. The factory hinge has a corresponding hole (about 5/8 ID) on the windshield leaf that mates over the head of the bolt. The weatherstrip sandwiches between the hinge leafs and gets squished between the hex head and the hole.

The new 69-77 windshield frames do not have the correct 66-69 hinge, and if it's already welded to the frame...it will be a challenge to make the holes.

I have a really nice 66 hinge that I was saving from a damaged frame. If you need dimensions or pics, I can get them for you.

Hmmm. So when I test fit my windshield with the rivnuts it seemed to seat just fine. If there is a problem there, then I think my solution will be to make the hole in the hinge larger and use washer with the windshield frame bolts to secure it. My frame is 66-68 and us recessed on the top part to allow room for the bolt heads. Not sure if that makes sense or not.

 

[jamesroney]

Hmmm. So when I test fit my windshield with the rivnuts it seemed to seat just fine. If there is a problem there, then I think my solution will be to make the hole in the hinge larger and use washer with the windshield frame bolts to secure it. My frame is 66-68 and us recessed on the top part to allow room for the bolt heads. Not sure if that makes sense or not.

It makes total sense to me. But as soon as you make a "huge" hole in the hinge, then you need a "huger" washer to cover the hole, and it needs to be at least as thick as the hinge. But you can also countersink the thick washer...and that leaves options.

But I don't understand how your hinge could possibly sit flat against the cowl if the rivnut shoulder is sticking up. My guess is that it felt good, but it actually landed on all 9 rivnuts and was sitting on top of them. Not a bad solution if you are trying to buiild a bridge...but you will see a gap looking from the edge, and the hinge bead will not be supported.

I will never understand the use of rivnuts in that application. (same for bed rails for the hardtop mounting...) It drives me crazy that people install things that spin when they rust...and deform metal, and don't have back up plates. Rivnuts aren't even great for holding a rearview mirror to a door.
When I do a bolt on windshield, I make a set of 16ga plates with actual nuts welded on, and then plug weld the plate to the cowl. I suppose you could make a single long one with 9 nuts...but that would just create another place for water to seep into. But I didn't want to crap on this guy's thread. (which I suppose I just did...)

 

[trailerjack]

It makes total sense to me. But as soon as you make a "huge" hole in the hinge, then you need a "huger" washer to cover the hole, and it needs to be at least as thick as the hinge. But you can also countersink the thick washer...and that leaves options.

But I don't understand how your hinge could possibly sit flat against the cowl if the rivnut shoulder is sticking up. My guess is that it felt good, but it actually landed on all 9 rivnuts and was sitting on top of them. Not a bad solution if you are trying to buiild a bridge...but you will see a gap looking from the edge, and the hinge bead will not be supported.

I will never understand the use of rivnuts in that application. (same for bed rails for the hardtop mounting...) It drives me crazy that people install things that spin when they rust...and deform metal, and don't have back up plates. Rivnuts aren't even great for holding a rearview mirror to a door.
When I do a bolt on windshield, I make a set of 16ga plates with actual nuts welded on, and then plug weld the plate to the cowl. I suppose you could make a single long one with 9 nuts...but that would just create another place for water to seep into. But I didn't want to crap on this guy's thread. (which I suppose I just did...)

I'll let you know what I come up with. I didn't notice a gap either but it was a test fit. With the dash off, I guess I can just go underneath if needed and bolt them in like that with a nut,, but you will probably think that's a terrible idea as well.

 

[Torkman66]

James, your comments and ideas are always welcome especially if you have what you believe is a better alternative option. I like the 16g and welded nut idea. Easy to make. Not actually sure I’ll ever take the frame off again. What about just some aluminum rivets. The top of a rivet is flatter than a flat bolt head and aluminum won’t rust. Easy to drill out a rivet if ever needed to remove frame.

 

[jamesroney]

I'll let you know what I come up with. I didn't notice a gap either but it was a test fit. With the dash off, I guess I can just go underneath if needed and bolt them in like that with a nut,, but you will probably think that's a terrible idea as well.

Nope, I actually like the nut idea. I'm guilty of doing exactly that. (I just like the welded nut plate better.) It's really hard to reach the one above the column, even when the dash is out.

 

[jamesroney]

James, your comments and ideas are always welcome especially if you have what you believe is a better alternative option. I like the 16g and welded nut idea. Easy to make. Not actually sure I’ll ever take the frame off again. What about just some aluminum rivets. The top of a rivet is flatter than a flat bolt head and aluminum won’t rust. Easy to drill out a rivet if ever needed to remove frame.

Rivets have the same problem as rivnuts, or even a sheet metal screw. They concentrate the force and load on to an area of metal directly adjacent to the hole. A nut plate, or a nut distributes the load over more area. So you will rarely see a nut with washer pull thru the parent metal, but a rivnut pulls on a much smaller area. The load on the windshield is not super high during normal operation, but when you have a high speed roll-over, you don't want the windshield separating from the cowl and flailing around the cabin. Which is why the factory used 40 spot welds.

...and it's not about YOU ever having to remove the frame. It's about ME having to work on your Bronco in 20 years and having to remove the frame!!!

Please don't use rivets, or rivnuts, or plastic push rivets, or crazy glue. About 9 of something the size of a 1/4-20 hex nut with a 7/16 head is the minimum.

 

[Wrightracing]

Now give me a break and I know this is a dumb question, but what is wrong with just welding the windshield frame in place? I know it would not be original and you could not tilt down the windshield to the hood, but how many people ever do tilt it down? I would understand a full out restoration, but in the long run on a hunting or off road 20 foot away looks good project, would it be bad and Why?

If welded and maybe seam sealed, it should not leak and hopefully avoid the dreaded rust issues.

On my 72, I have a ton of floor pan rust. The Bronco was from Pennsylvania. Now in San Diego I will be dealing with old and new metal on this project.

Side question, anyone use rust converter primer to stop rust from coming back? I could not find and subjects in a search and I am just lazy.

David

 

[stout22]

Stock configuration requires the windshield to fold forward to access the screws that hold the dash pad.

 

[Jdgephar]

Stock configuration requires the windshield to fold forward to access the screws that hold the dash pad.

And get the wiring through the side of the window frame

 

[ba123]

Now give me a break and I know this is a dumb question, but what is wrong with just welding the windshield frame in place? I know it would not be original and you could not tilt down the windshield to the hood, but how many people ever do tilt it down? I would understand a full out restoration, but in the long run on a hunting or off road 20 foot away looks good project, would it be bad and Why?

If welded and maybe seam sealed, it should not leak and hopefully avoid the dreaded rust issues.

On my 72, I have a ton of floor pan rust. The Bronco was from Pennsylvania. Now in San Diego I will be dealing with old and new metal on this project.

Side question, anyone use rust converter primer to stop rust from coming back? I could not find and subjects in a search and I am just lazy.

David

That's a whole other can or worms!

How do you know you're gonna weld it the perfect spacing for your door frame alignment? I mean, maybe you will, but that would suck if you just got it close but not perfect. Also, for me, since years ago I happened to get a rollcage that was weld in cause I didn't know any better...there was no way I would have put my dash in had I not been able to tilt my windshield frame forward.

You just don't know.

But I guess if you're sure and maybe brace the spacing to be perfect, then it might be ok.

 

[ba123]

And get the wiring through the side of the window frame

Yeah, that one too!

Although once you get a wire through, you can add more without tilting the windshield--as long as you leave one extra wire as a pull through (I have a loop in mine right now until I decide I don't want anything else up there.

 

[Madgyver]

Here is a pic of one of my fixes..

 

[Wrightracing]

Thanks for the info.

I am eliminating the over the windshield wiper motor, so wires inside the frame is not an issue. The door alignment is a concern, but I would not fully weld it until everything is mocked up in place. My rollcage is a full race style cage welded to out riggers below the A pillar and directly to the frame. Once everything is mocked up and aligned, I will be welding dimple die support plates to the cage and windshield frame. On my Bronco the windshield frame will be 13 inches wider than a stock 72 Bronco because the 72 body is going on a Full-size 86 chassis. The hard top is getting stretched and widened and if I can afford to, one day I may make a fiberglass mold of it and get John from AutoFab to make a fiberglass hard top. That would save on weight, rust issues and quiet things down inside.

The windshield wiper plan is to move them below the windshield. I have all the stuff for the 86 wipers and I am going to see if I can come up with a plan. I and also stretching and widening the hood, so I may be able to incorporate some type of cowl between the hood and the bottom of the windshield frame. I also plan to use hood lifting hinges similar to a truck with gas struts to make the larger hood easier to lift. I would like to make that and the fenders Fiberglass also, but once again, custom molds would need to be made, maybe one day. I am a metal fabrication guy, so metal hood fenders and top for now to get it rolling. The front clip will be mounted to a full rollcage kind of like race fenders and hood pins, so a transition to fiberglass mounting will be already planned for.

I am not sure if I am doing a dash pad of any type, but I will have to fabricate something to work. The rollcage will notched behind the dashboard, so once again a alternative to the stock dash pad will have to be figured out. I will also have to figure out the defrost vents from the Vintage Air, heater/Air Conditioning system.

It's a lot of work to do, but it will be my forever Bronco toy.

I was just considering getting a full front fabricated Dana 44 ttb +4 per side front suspension and steering made by Andrew Cho. I was offered a full front suspension and swing set steering system for $7000. Those Dana 44 housings are fully fabricated new housings, not like mine that are plated, uniball upgrade and cut and turned. It is so tempting, but it would delay the stroker motor and leave me using the 351w stock long block I got from a 89 Bronco.

Sorry for the long post and typos.

David

 

[ba123]

Not sure if you’re planning on welding up the original holes or plugging them but I just posted about the 3d printed plugs I made.

Thread 'Dual Wiper...Delete!'
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/dual-wiper-delete.322718/

 

[Wrightracing]

Not sure if you’re planning on welding up the original holes or plugging them but I just posted about the 3d printed plugs I made.

Thread 'Dual Wiper...Delete!'
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/dual-wiper-delete.322718/

That is a cool idea. In my case I will be welding them up. I am doing a bit of other metal work on the windshield frame to convert the frame to a glue in window like modern windows. Much less chance of water leaks.

David