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Track bar bracket welded on or not?

Lando375

Newbie
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
117
I'm currently working on my frame and have come to the part where I need to decide what to do with the drop track bar bracket. I have Duff's bracket (pictured). The instructions say to weld along the sides and top. I know bolting it on then welding it is the strongest for off-roading but is that necessary for a street driven Bronco? Here's my only reservation with welding it on. I went with a 3.5" lift but things may change. I may decide that's too tall or that that the drop bracket isn't what I want and a lift bracket on the axle is better. I want to be able to take it off if I needed to. The frame will be powder coated so I'd hate to cut it off and mess that up.

Thoughts?


 

Yeller

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
5,882
Loc.
Rogers County Oklahoma
It really should be welded. Bolting works but can work loose over time and cause other drive ability issues. The only way I would be comfortable long term bolting it would be to weld sleeves in the frame for the bolts to go through just like the steering box, doing that I would be fine with just bolting.
 

bax

Contributor
Old Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
14,491
Yeller / Steve is correct. It should be welded. You are correct for wanting to build a raised track bar mount on the axle. Those drop brackets are the devil. After you install it you will then install a drop pitman arm leading you down the road of excessive torque on your frame and your steering box.
 

catfan

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
258
I would also put a sleeve inside the stock bracket if not when you tighten the bolt it it could loosen later.
 
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Lando375

Lando375

Newbie
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
117
Thanks for the info. I wasn't really thinking of a riser bracket when I started. I've already powder coated and rebuilt the front axle.
 

FordBronc

Contributor
Bronco's, yea I have a couple.
Joined
Dec 26, 2010
Messages
1,413
Loc.
Polk County, Missouri
Mine did not fail at the weld. The weld held, the rest not so much....Thankfully I was going 0.0005 MPH when I came off this. A ratchet strap and limped it back to camp. I wil be honest here...booger weld with pretty much NO helmet and crappy welder and a piece of junk angle iron metal. Back on the trail the rest of the weekend, holding strong. UGLY, but strong. Research "Kiser Riser" for a heavy duty axle riser bracket. I have not had a chance to install mine yet.
 

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Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
34,833
The bolt on is good enough to drive one time, to get to a friends place that has a welder.

As others stated, needs to be solid. I prefer the axle riser myself. But street use the drop is fine.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
Sorry Lando, but you've already made the first mistake. That was powder coating things before you were done with the planning and fabrication. And planning to put powder coating something in the future first and foremost above the correct installation of an important part of your steering and suspension, does not make good common sense.
Beauty before functionality doesn't always win the race.
I think you're putting the unimportant before the important. You did it once with the axle, so don't keep making the same mistake with the frame while you still have time to do some welding before powder coating.
This is why the pros that can charge $200k for a build will build everything first, then tear it down to paint or powder coat after all the actual work has been done.
It's not something we can all do of course, and it does make logistical sense to coat stuff when you can, and when you actually believe you are done with that part.
But as many members here can attest, over the years doing things in that order has come back to bite many of them. Sometimes more than once!

So my advice for now is, because you already coated your axle and did not intend to use a riser in the beginning. And because you may lower your suspension height at some point in the future, as you stated, forget the riser for the moment and just add the trackbar bracket in question and weld the sucker in place. You will probably never have to remove it.
Make sure to add a dropped pitman arm at the same time, simply because you must. They are to be used in tandem with each other unless you have a '76 or '77 Bronco?
Did you say what year yours was? I'm guessing '75 or earlier based on how the bracket looks in your first picture.

The bottom line is that the bracket has to be welded to give you the full effect. Without welding, you will experience some slight wandering on the road as it flexes. I know this for a fact because that's how my '71 reacted while I drove it around for about a month before welding it on. The difference was instantaneous and noticeable.
Lost all of the wandering tendency. Slight as it was...

And as I've stated many times before, you can still fully benefit from a trackbar drop and pitman arm even with just 2.5" of lift. So go ahead and powder coat it all after it's done and keep it even if you lower your suspension.
Just don't go below 2.5" or you probably will want to remove it. But only time will tell at that point.

A riser is definitely stronger, as has been said. But it's more work, will damage your already existing powder coating, and will potentially need other tweaks, adjustments and fabrications to go along with it. The drop bracket is less detrimental to your current build schedule and will work just fine on the street.
Speaking of which though, what steering setup, what size tires, and what axles are you going with?
Those questions are pertinent even at this stage because some of those things will contribute to extra stress on frames and mounting brackets. So it's all important.
It's one big package even if you're working on different ends of the truck. It all has to work together in order to give you the best experience.

Paul
 

jamesroney

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
1,666
Loc.
Fremont, CA
Thanks for the info. I wasn't really thinking of a riser bracket when I started. I've already powder coated and rebuilt the front axle.
I'm not going to tell you not to weld it. I'm the guy that welded mine on, then sent it to powder, then cut it off. So don't listen to me.

BUT...if you insist on using a trac bar drop bracket, and if you insist on bolting it on...then PLEASE, do not use the single 9/16 diameter thru bolt for the lateral attachment. Even with a crush sleeve, it is a bad idea.

You will have to cut off the tack weld on the factory track bar frame bolt. You will want to use a grade 5 fastener for that bolt, and you will want to tack it back on. Then go buy two 9/16-18 x 1-1/4 grade 8 hex head bolts, and a pair of grade 8 prevailing torque nuts. Place the bolts in the trac bar holes from the "inside-out" so that you have the heads of the bolts inside the bracket, and the nuts exposed. Torque the bolts to a minimum of 130 lb-ft, but I always go higher. As tight as you can go without twisting them off is a good value. This is the proper way to secure the new bracket to the old bracket. It will eventually work loose.

For a street truck, that will be good enough. And in the immortal words of the former CTO of Motorola..."Good enough is MORE than good enough..." (take note that he is the "former" CTO...)
 
OP
OP
Lando375

Lando375

Newbie
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
117
Sorry Lando, but you've already made the first mistake. That was powder coating things before you were done with the planning and fabrication. And planning to put powder coating something in the future first and foremost above the correct installation of an important part of your steering and suspension, does not make good common sense.
Beauty before functionality doesn't always win the race.
I think you're putting the unimportant before the important. You did it once with the axle, so don't keep making the same mistake with the frame while you still have time to do some welding before powder coating.
This is why the pros that can charge $200k for a build will build everything first, then tear it down to paint or powder coat after all the actual work has been done.
It's not something we can all do of course, and it does make logistical sense to coat stuff when you can, and when you actually believe you are done with that part.
But as many members here can attest, over the years doing things in that order has come back to bite many of them. Sometimes more than once!

So my advice for now is, because you already coated your axle and did not intend to use a riser in the beginning. And because you may lower your suspension height at some point in the future, as you stated, forget the riser for the moment and just add the trackbar bracket in question and weld the sucker in place. You will probably never have to remove it.
Make sure to add a dropped pitman arm at the same time, simply because you must. They are to be used in tandem with each other unless you have a '76 or '77 Bronco?
Did you say what year yours was? I'm guessing '75 or earlier based on how the bracket looks in your first picture.

The bottom line is that the bracket has to be welded to give you the full effect. Without welding, you will experience some slight wandering on the road as it flexes. I know this for a fact because that's how my '71 reacted while I drove it around for about a month before welding it on. The difference was instantaneous and noticeable.
Lost all of the wandering tendency. Slight as it was...

And as I've stated many times before, you can still fully benefit from a trackbar drop and pitman arm even with just 2.5" of lift. So go ahead and powder coat it all after it's done and keep it even if you lower your suspension.
Just don't go below 2.5" or you probably will want to remove it. But only time will tell at that point.

A riser is definitely stronger, as has been said. But it's more work, will damage your already existing powder coating, and will potentially need other tweaks, adjustments and fabrications to go along with it. The drop bracket is less detrimental to your current build schedule and will work just fine on the street.
Speaking of which though, what steering setup, what size tires, and what axles are you going with?
Those questions are pertinent even at this stage because some of those things will contribute to extra stress on frames and mounting brackets. So it's all important.
It's one big package even if you're working on different ends of the truck. It all has to work together in order to give you the best experience.

Paul

Thanks for all that Paul. I know I jumped the gun a little with the axles but I really wasn't planning on welding anything to them. The frame is a different story. I've installed and uninstalled alot on it. I've cut off and welded on alot of new things too.

The Bronco is a 70 with a Dana 44. I'm planning on running 285/70/17 tires. I have the Duff's Dual Sport Bump Steer Eliminator – Tie Rod Under kit which comes with the drop bracket. I also welded in a steering box reinforcement plate.

Duff's Dual Sport Bump Steer Eliminator with the tie rod over comes with the axles riser instead of the drop bracket. I have both the drop and the axles riser brackets. I called Duff's today and they said to use the drop bracket with the tie rod under not the riser.

I think I'll just weld in the drop bracket and be done with it. The Bronco will never see off road other than a dirt road on occasion.
 
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OP
Lando375

Lando375

Newbie
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
117
I'm not going to tell you not to weld it. I'm the guy that welded mine on, then sent it to powder, then cut it off. So don't listen to me.

BUT...if you insist on using a trac bar drop bracket, and if you insist on bolting it on...then PLEASE, do not use the single 9/16 diameter thru bolt for the lateral attachment. Even with a crush sleeve, it is a bad idea.

You will have to cut off the tack weld on the factory track bar frame bolt. You will want to use a grade 5 fastener for that bolt, and you will want to tack it back on. Then go buy two 9/16-18 x 1-1/4 grade 8 hex head bolts, and a pair of grade 8 prevailing torque nuts. Place the bolts in the trac bar holes from the "inside-out" so that you have the heads of the bolts inside the bracket, and the nuts exposed. Torque the bolts to a minimum of 130 lb-ft, but I always go higher. As tight as you can go without twisting them off is a good value. This is the proper way to secure the new bracket to the old bracket. It will eventually work loose.

For a street truck, that will be good enough. And in the immortal words of the former CTO of Motorola..."Good enough is MORE than good enough..." (take note that he is the "former" CTO...)

Thanks James. What made you cut off the drop bracket? If I use the bracket, I'm going to weld it. I also plan I rewelding the factory track bar mount maybe even reinforcing it.
 

jamesroney

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
1,666
Loc.
Fremont, CA
Thanks James. What made you cut off the drop bracket? If I use the bracket, I'm going to weld it. I also plan I rewelding the factory track bar mount maybe even reinforcing it.
The tie rod hit it at full stuff...

If I ran bump stops like I should, then it might have been OK...buy I cycled the suspension with no coil springs in it, and with the steering at full lock, and the suspension at full stuff...it hit the track bar bracket.

so I decided to install the riser on the axle side, and take out the drop bracket on the frame side. It actually helped with tie rod to trac bar mounting bolt interference as well. The tie rod moves closer to the axle tube as it cycles left to right. At full left turn, the tie rod hit the track bar castle nut.
 
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Lando375

Lando375

Newbie
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
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