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Front End Alignment Consultation

TX-ZACH

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Sep 27, 2021
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Chappell Hill Texas
This is for a 77, Dana 44, WH 5.5" lift w/ Long Arms, 35" MT's

This is one of the last things to "try" and improve. Just bought new tires. It has severe + Camber and wearing the outside edge of the tires by 75% vs normal wear. I figured wrong when thinking this was not going to be a big deal and expensive. The truck drives straight and I now am considering just letting it eat tires but curios what the right thing to do is. Truck drives straight. Virtualy ZERO shops in my area can or would attempt to align and would have to trailer it into the city to find a 4x4 Specialty shop for front end specialist that can work on old vehicles.
 

DirtDonk

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Over the years, I think most have just let it eat tires.
But I am in favor of doing whatever possible to reduce that, including lowering the positive camber, but also including playing with toe-in settings.
Too much toe-in can certainly contribute to the wear on the outside in conjunction with the camber.

How many miles does it take before you notice the wear on the front?
Just wondering if it’s long enough to consider rotating the tires as a way of at least wearing them out evenly and reducing the wear and tear on the front tires only.

Do you know what your toe in is?
And have you read the discussions on ball joint eccentrics and camber shims?
What front brakes are you running?
 
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TX-ZACH

TX-ZACH

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Disk breaks in front. Visually and from tire wear toe-in is within range or very mild. Judging from the tire wear front vs back, I should get about 15-20k miles before front outside edge were contact is goes slick. I am considering just letting them put it on the rack for readings. I have read as many as I can and going back a few times on past posts. From what I see, not sure a degree or two with shims is going to help me.

I found 1 shop near me that said he could try to improve with shims but would be in the $1000 range and I am concerned drive-ability could get worse trying to improve tire wear.

By the way for $300ea these are not bad at all: https://www.herculestire.com/tire-details/Hercules/TIS-Offroad-TT1
 

DirtDonk

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Never go just by visual clues. Always helpful in these situation’s to have a professional alignment readout done on a rack by someone that knows what they’re doing.
Don’t let them hoodwink you into thinking you don’t need all the readings or printout either.
Get the full Monty so you know what you’re dealing with, even if they aren’t willing to adjust anything but toe-in. And frankly, don’t even let them adjust the toe-in!
You can do that yourself in the driveway, so paying the minimal for the alignment check is not a big investment.
 

Apogee

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Camber will impact how your truck turns into corners, as it is one of variables that sets the tire contact patch on the ground. Your caster combined with the KIA (kingpin inclination angle...or in this case, ball joints) will then determine how your camber settings change throughout the range of steering. For straight line stability, camber doesn't really play that large of a roll, as that's more governed by toe (in or out) and caster.

My '77 D44 didn't have much camber at all, and drove great at any speed with CAGE long arms, 3.5" lift, etc. The pinion angle was terrible, but that's not what we're talking about here.
 

sprdv1

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Never go just by visual clues. Always helpful in these situation’s to have a professional alignment readout done on a rack by someone that knows what they’re doing.
Don’t let them hoodwink you into thinking you don’t need all the readings or printout either.
Get the full Monty so you know what you’re dealing with, even if they aren’t willing to adjust anything but toe-in. And frankly, don’t even let them adjust the toe-in!
You can do that yourself in the driveway, so paying the minimal for the alignment check is not a big investment.

completely agree..
 

ba123

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CA
I've only started to look at this stuff as I have a ways to go, but I did find this good video while searching and shows an easy way to adjust:

Not sure if anyone has input on this...
 

DirtDonk

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I’m glad you were asked for pictures. I totally ignored the fact that it was a 77!
So it would have stock ford disc brakes (which is what my question about Brakes was for) and stock 77 Inverted-Y linkage.
Almost nobody runs a 5 1/2 inch lift and 35 inch tires with that steering linkage anymore. Too many issues both on and off the road.
It wasn’t a bad design for a stock bronco. And it wasn’t a bad design for a mildly modified bronco. But you have several things going on with that type of steering linkage.
Not the least of which is a 5 1/2 inch lift!

You have far too much flex of the long link and the tires will perhaps wear even more because no matter what you do just the simple action of the suspension cycling up and down while driving changes the toe in as you drive.
It’s just the nature of the beast.

When it was almost perfectly flat in its stock position, it wasn’t all that bad. But with bigger tires and more angle, it gets more severe.
The drop bracket added to the already large upper track bar bracket adds more leverage and potential flex. Do you know if it was welded to the original, or is it just bolted? It pretty much has to be welded.

A more robust linkage with better compensation for the tall lift is probably one of the big improvements you can make to such a tall lifted vehicle.
You say it drives pretty good right now though, so that’s a great sign and means you don’t necessarily have to do it right away.
But it should definitely be on your list.
 
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TX-ZACH

TX-ZACH

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Duly noted. I have only changed the steering stabilizer so far and only because it looked god awful and rusted. Drives great and will run straight 65mph on highway and freeway for a 50yr old, lifted bronco. I will do a deep dive on that after I get new shocks figured out. Now that I think of it, I have a box from previous owners full of new tie rod ends. My tire shop said bring it back and they will rack it for alignment report for free. Once I get that done I'll post it up.


The drop bracket added to the already large upper track bar bracket adds more leverage and potential flex. Do you know if it was welded to the original, or is it just bolted? It pretty much has to be welded. <<<< I am not sure what part you are referencing.
 

DirtDonk

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No problem. Follow the track bar from the axle mount up to the frame near the steering box.
The upper end of the bar is bolted to, and pivots in, a large bracket hanging down off of the frame. And what looks to be another bracket attached to it. If so, that is a trackbar drop bracket.
In the picture above, they are basically behind the Pitman Arm and in front of the red/orange coil spring.
 

bigmuddy

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I was afraid I would see that steering setup. As Dirtdonk said, it would be best if you swapped to a different steering linkage to get this dialed in. It won't completely fix the issue but would help considering the 5.5" lift. Part of the issue is that when you drive and the suspension cycles it wants to pull the link to the pitman arm up and the tires will toe in even more.

FYI the 77 steering knuckles stick out closer to the rim edge than earlier models and so you may need to do a wheel spacer, or perhaps one of the steering setups with the SRE/Heim ends would clear? I personally run a 1" wheel spacer without issue to get the clearance needed. Could also buy different rims with a different offset but that is really expensive and unnecessary IMO.

One of the fellow CB members (reamer) just started making camber shims that would certainly help too. You will need a complete read out to find out how much the shim needs to adjust and help with your particular camber issue. Pretty easy and cheap install.
 
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TX-ZACH

TX-ZACH

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I understand you guys saying the stock steering system when traveling contributes even more positive camber when cycling. This makes sense as to why they bald out on the outer edge so quick. 1st thing 1st is get a report.

I needed an excuse for wheel adapters anyway. ;)
 

DirtDonk

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Not camber. Toe-in changes with the stock 76/77 steering links.

Can’t wait to see what the numbers are when you get it up on a rack.

In the meantime, have you ever measured between the bottom of the frame rails and the top of the axle?
Just to verify what lift you’re actually sitting at.
 
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TX-ZACH

TX-ZACH

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Not camber. Toe-in changes with the stock 76/77 steering links.

Can’t wait to see what the numbers are when you get it up on a rack.

In the meantime, have you ever measured between the bottom of the frame rails and the top of the axle?
Just to verify what lift you’re actually sitting at.
I will measure that out and confirm.
 

Madgyver

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Jul 30, 2001
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14,678
How long does your tires last?
I see 77 steering links. In my opinion those linkages works great at stock height, any suspension lift will mess up the stock 77 steering geometry.
Just my opinion and experience.
 
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TX-ZACH

TX-ZACH

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How long does your tires last?
I see 77 steering links. In my opinion those linkages works great at stock height, any suspension lift will mess up the stock 77 steering geometry.
Just my opinion and experience.
Got it. They were on it when purchased. I have about 6000 miles on it and they were approx 50% wore on outer edge. Which one would you recommend to replace?
 

reamer

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Thats why I'm making Camber shims... Took my extreme 1.2 degree camber to the desired 0.6 degrees.
 

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CopperBronco

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Aug 13, 2021
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379
I will measure that out and confirm.
Just chiming in here, I recently lifted and aligned my Bronco, and added all new steering. No 5.5” lift, just 2.5”, but regardless getting a lifted Bronco to solid alignment is a chore. James Duff has some great videos on how to get better than stock alignment. Go to their YouTube channel and watch all the videos on it to help grasp the concepts if you don’t already know them. Those plus this forum were a huge help to get mine driving a lot better.

For mine I had to do the following:

First things first I went and got an alignment numbers on existing Bronco from a local shop to understand what needed fixing. Knowing your baseline is essential to getting the right parts.

1. All new Heim steering linkage, Duffs is great cause you can adjust while installed.
2. Adjusted and centered steering box and aligned pitman arm to the frame (arm is a beast to get loose).
3. Put in all new 7degree C-bushings and radius arm bushings to get caster to 3-4 degrees positive based on my initial numbers. As far as I could go without a cut and turn on axle, some guys say get to 5-7 degrees positive caster. But 3-4 is respectable.
4. Leveled my radius arms with careful c-cap bolt tightening to avoid Bronco lean
5. Made sure pinion angle passed the droop test, to make sure you don’t break or wear driveshaft down.
6. Put extended brake lines up front as well.
7. Got toe in to 1/4”, and caster to 1/8” if I remember right, or right around zero.

With a lift like yours though I imagine you’ll need a drop pitman arm, and a welded on trac bar bracket(which is stronger than a trac bar frame drop bracket). Also you can do tie-rod over install to help with geometry being less steep. I also imagine you have radius arm drop brackets or extended radius arms for a lift that big, I’m not even sure you can lift 5.5” without doing that 😬. And hopefully a high pinion on your front axle to get any sort of reasonable pinion angle on the front driveshaft. Other options are a cut and turn on the axle, and adjusting the c-bushing wedges at an axle shop. As you can see the ripple effects can be large, and a lot of guys just change one thing but don’t bother with the ramifications. Either they don’t know, it’s too expensive, or just ran out of time, or don’t care and have run their Bronco that way for ages, or all of the above. Just depends on your goal, your anal retentiveness, and how many replacement parts you want to buy. But get one good death rattle due to bad steering geometry and you’ll finally get after it. I hear it’s a butt puckering experience. Hope this helps! Good luck!
 
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